using the Mackie TT24 mixer in the control surface

hello,
I have a mixer Mackie TT24. I want to use this mixer control surface. 
all the parameters are sent to the usb mackie. 
how can i retrieve this data for midi translation in mackie hui or mackie control format.

the midi output of the TT24 do not allow to get out the position of the vpots. 
we can only recover the level of the faders and the state of the track mute
 or not mute

best regards

Eric

 

Hi,

I don’t have one of these but if I remember correctly, Mackie HUI requires that you send a ping at about 2 second intervals. In MT Pro you, can set up a timer to do this.  You have it send 90 00 00. In response the device should reply with 90 00 7f to show it is active.

 

To change a V-Pot  value remotely,  you send b0 4p vv where p is the V-Pot number and vv is the delta value. p is anything from 0 to 0c and is just a linear mapping of the V-Pots from left to right.

When you move a V-Pot, the device should transmit a b0 1y vv where y is the channel from 0-7 and vv is the value

 

I’m not an expert on HUI or Mackie, however I stumbled over some of this before and found some limited documentation that I attached here from someone who did some reverse engineering.

I also attached a project file I did that sends out ping to the HUI device. In my case I was using a Launch Control XL in HUI emulation mode.

 

 

hello Florian, Hello Steve

I use a digital mixage table brand MACKIE model TT24.

it has a USB and mackie control software.

the faders of this table are motorized.

today I want to turn the table in question into a control surface for the CUBASE software from steinberg.

the table has noon inputs but the implementation of each physical controller is not sent by the midi socket. only the fader and the mute.

For example, panoramas are not sent.

Since Mackie has developed a Mackie control application that recovers, visualizes but also memorizes on PC the set of parameters I bought your software BOMESOFTWARE translatorpro midi.

 I connected the table and set the input / output (com3 port which is actually a usb from the table to the computer to midi output that goes to the midi entry of cubase.

I see as midi FF midranslator capture message.


I have two questions. Is it possible that, MACKIE is developed a meta event "owner"

if so how to recover the data to make a translation understandable by cubase. Best regards . Eric

I installed the beta version 1.8.2 as you asked me.

I do not have more results.

my Mackie sends MIDI FF. but no more information.

when I select control change I receive MIDI FF.

when I select RAW midi system exclusive I receive MIDI FF

I do not know what to do

best regards

Hi Eric, I’m not sure I understand these statements. “the table has noon inputs but the implementation of each physical controller is not sent by the midi socket. only the fader and the mute.” Don’t understand “noon inputs”. Don’t understand what you mean by “MIDI socket”. Do you mean do you mean to the “MIDI OUT” connector or are you talking about MIDI out over USB? Are you sending MIDI OUT via USB, MIDI DIN Connector or serial port? On the computer, are you reading MIDI in via USB or serial port? If the table is USB MIDI class compliant then you should be able to connect USB on table to USB on computer and it should work. If the device does not have MIDI USB class compliant output, you should be able to use a MIDI DIN to USB interface cable that is class compliant to receive MIDI into the computer. If you do this, don’t by a cheap one, as cheaper ones do not have large enough buffer size for longer MIDI messages. Maybe get a MIO USB or Roland UM1. If your table has serial port and you want to use that, you can use a Serial to USB port on the computer, but there are some additional things to keep in mind. You must ensure the PIN outs are compatible. If both are serial DTE devices you will need a crossover (null modem) adapter. Also you must make sure both the sending and receiving devices are set up for the same baud rate, stop bits and parity. Consequently if you can do this with MIDI USB or MIDI DIN to USB, it will be much easier. One you get the connections set up. You will need to test the output of the device. If it is not sending MIDI, you may need to load the project file I sent you to send a MIDI “ping” to your device at 2 second intervals to enable output. It is important before we try to set up any translators in MT Pro (beyond the ping) that when you turn a knob, move a dial or push a button, you see something coming in from your table. Once we aere there, then we can dig in to translate the incoming Mackie HUI messages to something CUBASE can use.

Found this in the manual page 47

Enabling MIDI Input and Output
MIDI messaging in the TT24 is disabled by default. To
configure the TT24 to respond to supported incoming
MIDI messages, click or press the RECEIVE button in
the MIDI page to highlight it. Similarly, to configure the
TT24 to send MIDI messages when supported parameters
are changed, click or press the SEND button in the
MIDI page to highlight it.

http://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/10728-TT24OwnersManual.pdf

Hi

I’m not sure I understand these statements. “the table has noon inputs but the implementation of each physical controller is not sent by the midi socket. only the fader and the mute.”

It's exact. the mackie TT24 table has an input and a midi output. 
but only the faders and mutes are sent in the midi interface. 
I have no choice but to go through the USB output of the mixer. 
I could then recover all the signals.

Don’t understand “noon inputs”.

do not worry, I do not understand what I wanted to write. laughs

I’m sorry, I speak very bad English, I use google translation.

I use two computers. the first works with windows 10. but the TT24 control software  and the driver are in 32 bit. I can’t install it on the first computer.

The small laptop is working with windows 7 32bit. the driver and the software
works perfectly

I use midi interface ‘midisport 4×4’ for windows 10. I will change interface for
the second computer.

I told myself that the little midi interface had buffers too small to do this job.
I put the interface 4×4 midisport on windows 7. I wanted to see if I received the
signal from vpot and faders. I do not receive by the usb connection of the table
that the following data MIDI FF.

I also hoped that the little midi interface is the source of the problem. but no!!!

I had already tested the MIDI output of the mixer. I received the signals of volume
and mutes. So I had to abandon the midi output of the mackie table to switch to the
USB serial port.

I put the file that you sent me with the ping. it must be put before each translator 
or just at the beginning of the file

I'm going to change the midi interface of the 32Bit win7

 

 

OK, I find it hard to believe that the table will only support volume and mute through the MIDI out connector. My guess is either the MIDI in and out a are disabled or that they will only send the other signals when periodically receiving a ping from the host. I think you will find if you send MIDI 90 00 00 to the table at 2 second intervals, you will find that it also sends out other MIDI messages. If you want to use serial port, I would recommend you load puttytel or some other terminal emulation program on your computer and monitor the output of your table to ensure you are getting signals before you try the serial interface of MT Pro. Once you understand the signals being sent, then you should be able to set up translators on MT pro to handle the input from the table. In my opinion, it would be much easier to use the MIDI output of the table instead of serial port. If you get volume and mute, that means the interface is working and it is a matter of configuring the table correctly for any other output. Have you discussed with Mackie support? The ping project file would just need additional translators to be added for the functionality you want. It is set up to ping via MIDI (not serial port). You would also need to define which true MIDI interface is assigned to the aliases I set up. Steve P.S. No problem with language. Google translate has it’s limitations.

Good evening Steve,
I sent the ping on the MIDI interface roland via the midi input of the mackie TT24 but 
also on com3 port to multiply our chances.
 
it produced no change. the mixer data is still not sent through the usb port of the table.
I used the TT24 control software. Miditranslator pro then tells me that com3 port 
access is denied.

I used the protocol mackie control of cubase the data are correctly sent via the 
midi interface midisport 4x4. the sports midiman output A sends the position changes 
of the virtual cursor (cubase) in the roland midi interface. Miditranslator Pro gets all the data.

they conform to the description of mackie control.

i tried to use wireshark which would scan com3 input (usb port).
but my win7 32 is not up to date I can't use it. I have an error message 
api-ms-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll
I searched for updates to solve this problem but my wifi connection seems very slow.
so I will make the windows 7 32 updates and come back to you then.

Hi, please send the ping to the Mackie TT24 only the MIDI DIN interface, and monitor what comes back from the mixer from only the MIDI DIN interface. I don’t even know if your mixing board supports serial port over USB. I could not find any reference that it does in the manual I found.

If you want to see if Mackie TT24 data comes across serial port, monitor, you should set up to monitor that port with something like puttytel to see if you actually get ANY serial data from your mixer through the serial port.

I’m much more confident that the MIDI DIN interface will more reliable when we figure out how to get it working.

hi

i send the ping to the Mackie TT24 only the MIDI DIN interface for the same result…

i use this software   

https://www.eltima.com/fr/products/serial-port-monitor/

when the TT24 control software is open the data is visible in the com3 port 
analysis software.

but miditranslator pro no longer has access to port com3. access denied.

here are some com port data files. 

these data files prove that the data is sent via the USB port but that this port 
needs the TT24 software controls for this data to be transmitted.

we are progressing

See you tomorrow for more data
good night

 

Hi, Eric,

Looking at the data on the first file certainly doesn’t look like MIDI type data. I suspect the COM port baud rates or number of bits, stop bit or parity is not matching.

The only reason I can think of that you can no longer open the COM3 port with MT Pro is that something else has it opened and not allowing MT Pro to re-open the port. I’m not sure how the Eltima software handles this, however most other serial port software takes exclusive access of the serial port. From what I read about Eltima, it is supposed to be able to monitor in the background allowing normal traffic to flow. You might want to check with them if there may be something interfering with the ability of MT Pro to also open the COM port.

Is you plan to use COM3 port as input into MT Pro and then redirect it to a virtual MIDI port to ultimately go out to CUBASE?

I hate to be persistent but I have to think that MIDI DIN out should be available on this controller. If we can get that working it would be much easier. With that said, if you have completely abandoned the idea of using the MIDI out connector on you TT24, then I will shut up and we will continue to look at COM3.

Looking at come 3 when you move a fader it should give you something that looks like a Mackie HUI pattern. What I’m seeing in your log file just looks like pure garbage (no offense). As I said, I believe it might be a baud rate problem of sorts. Especially with all of the 00 pairs of data.

Do you see any data that remotely looks like what is posted in the HUI protocol file I posted?

Thanks for your patience.

hi,

I would like to discover that the midi implementation of all the parameters were made 
by Mackie but I do not believe much. but I want to continue to research in this direction.

Before using com3 port analysis software I had the Mt Pro to access it at the same time.
 Is it because of system rights?

Yes, I was thinking of using the COM3 port as input to MT Pro, then redirecting it to a 
virtual MIDI port and finally going out to CUBASE.

The com3 port sends all the data since the TT24 software receives them. it's a point 
that reassures me.

the com3 port even sends the levels in DB

I still want to try to send the ping on the output of the new midi roland interface. 
but I have already noticed that nothing comes out except faders and mutes. 
the Vpots remain silent and send no data. I repeat the test in the day.

doing this research does not bother me. it's like an investigation.

But I think it's difficult for you. you have knowledge that I do not have but you 
don't have the mixer at home. so you're the most patient.

if you had this table at home I think you would solve this problem in 10 minutes.

but remain analytical. repeat the test of ping via midi roland interface and look 
again at the result. 
For information The midi out of my TT24  sends the right signals midi for 
the faders and the mute. I will make a capture of what is sent on the midi outlet (roland).
 what is strange is that the port com detects MIDi FF each time but not the rest
 of the message...

Thanks for your help

 

Some more questions…

1. if you connect the Mackie to your Windows 7 computer, do you see a MIDI interface appearing for it?
2. If yes, and you open it in MT Pro and watch the Log Window with “MIDI IN” checked, do you see messages or all messages?
3. If no, does it appear as a COM port?
4. If yes, please make sure to use MT Pro beta 1.8.3 (not 1.8.2).
5. do you see continuous FF input in the Log Window when moving any of the faders?
6. If yes, it’s likely that the serial port rate is wrong. Try other values.

Sorry if Steve has already asked some of that…

How do you set the baud rate, stop bits and parity on the TT24? Is there any documentation that you have that shows you how the USB serial port does this? The documentation I found simply states that it has a USB port but doesn’t say whether it is for audio data, MIDI data, or serial data and if serial data what encoding it uses.

Some more questions…

if you connect the Mackie to your Windows 7 computer, do you see a MIDI interface appearing for it?

No, i see TT24 usb and com3 but no midiTT24

If no, does it appear as a COM port? com3

If yes, please make sure to use MT Pro beta 1.8.3 (not 1.8.2). yes i have lauch this 1.8.3

do you see continuous FF input in the Log Window when moving any of the faders?

no. I see Midi FF but sometimes nothing happens. I managed to get other messages by com 3 but I had to cheat.
I noticed that when I run TT24 software for a second I get com3 data (see screenshot).

if I only plug the umone midi jacks and I debranche usb tt24 I get only the faders and mutes but no other signal.
in conclusion I think more and more that the other parameters are not implemented on the midi output the documentation
explains that the purpose of the MIDI socket is to connect a second TT24 console that will reproduce identical
fader levels and mute snapshots but no other parameters.

If yes, it’s likely that the serial port rate is wrong. Try other values.

I tested the other speeds but I have no more data.
I made a screenshot of the parameters of the com port and USB port TT24 we are 9600 baud in 8 bit
without parity stop bit 1. the same parameters in MTPRO

I tested the other speeds but I have no more data.
I made a screenshot of the parameters of the com port and USB port TT24
 we are 9600 baud in 8 bit without parity stop bit 1

when I run the software TT24 control I receive on the com3 port data Midi FF BF FF ...
it is progress. but it only lasts a second. after access to the port is denied. 
TT24 control refuses data sharing.

Sorry if Steve has already asked some of that…

no problem thnak’s for your help

another information

MTpro 1.8.3 build 881

OK, I see in the manual where it talks about MIDI out. It seems that this device was probably built before Mackie HUI was invented or it does not implement HUI.

 

On page 48 of the manual it discusses that it can send and receive program changes, fader values, and mute on/off messages only which aligns with what you are saying.

If further talks about using the USB to interface with “TT Control” software, but it does not specify the type of Interface TT Control software is.  Is there a separate manual that describes the TT Control software and how it works. I have to believe it is run on a PC but not sure if it is “serial port” enabled or uses some other proprietary USB protocol.

 

I did not choose this transfer speed. when I install TT24 controls the software it 
automatically sets the parameters visible in one of the screenshots.
but i just changed the speed in com3 port. I put 19200 baud. I put the same parameters 
in MTPRO there is no more visible data. the TT24 control software no longer responds. 

the virtual fader don't move, and the panoramas don't move either. 
no parameters have not transmitted anymore. so I put in 9600 baud. TT24 control 
software works again.
The usb port is not made to transfer audio signals only data control

 

Do you have the pro version of the Eltima monitory? The standard version requires exclusive access to the port?
Is there a way you can monitor between the TT24 console and the software to see what data is being transferred. Try all speeds until it looks like you see something that looks reasonable. Not to many FF’s and 00’s.

It is possible that this interface uses it’s own proprietary serial protocol which would need to be reverse engineered.

 

I think it's a proprietary protocol. and I am very sad.
 I'm afraid there is no solution. I really need vpots for panning.
 if this step is won the rest will be easier. on the other hand, 
the vpots of the mixer under the control screen would be able to modify the plugins 
such as the plugins of the marks waves.
But I think I dream a little too much

 

 

Do you have the pro version of Eltima Monitory?
No, the trial version 14 days.


The standard version requires exclusive access to the port?

 no access free data is not stopped. TT24 control can continue to work

Is there a way to monitor between the TT24 console and the software to see what data
 is being transferred?

yes the Eltima monitory, but I do not know how to interpret the data.

Try all the speeds until you see something that seems reasonable. Not for many FF and 00.

I tried all the speeds nothing works except 9600 baud

It is possible that this interface uses its own proprietary serial protocol 
that should be modified.

yes I think it's a solution but how? 
I had imagined to duplicate in a software way the data which passes by the com3 port. 
an output for TT24 software and one for MTpro ... but again, how?

Well until you get the baud rate matched and see meaningful data, I’m afraid it would be difficult to reverse engineer. Once you get meaningful data, then you turn each vpot and then document what it is sending.

Did you try the higher baud rates like maybe 115,200? I would think that Mackie would have set up to handle the highest possible baud rate that a USB COM port allowed (as of 2004 when the console was released)

 

Have you tried higher transmission speeds like maybe 115 200?

yes but over 19200 baud the mixer does not respond anymore.

I haven't tried 115200. Is there a danger for the mixer or for the computer?

  on the other hand, how could Mackie use the port with such speed if TT24 software 
installs the com3 TT24 port at a higher 9600 baud rate? I'm not sure what I'm saying but I'm trying to understand Mackie's logic. If Mackie needed more bandwidth they would probably have set the com3 on a live  can we dynamically modify this speed or should we define it from the beginning? I think Mackie would have set up to handle the highest possible baud rate that an 
authorized USB COM port (from 2004 when the console was released). To this question I have no answer I do not know ... I'm sorry I can't bring more
 information. what data format should I search with Eltima monitory?

I would go with data dump format that shows hex characters.

 

I would go with the data dump format that shows hexadecimal characters.

ok i am trying to make a file of this type and i am sending it to you. 
I will make a file by selectable speed.

in the order of the commands used. I'll move the fader. then the panoramic.
 then the mute on / mute off

this test protocol is right for you?

 

OK, might be nice if we could get it using. Nice mixer but as a control surface it is more of a boat anchor without this functionality.

Yes that's exactly it. which control surface would you buy today for cubase?

I will go do the tests

Of the control surfaces I have, I kinda like my APC40 MK2. However if you want motorized faders, you might look at Presonus or Behringer. They both have various controllers and I think some of them actually support Mackie MCP protocol. Note that if the controller you end up with doesn’t output the data that CUBASE needs. You still have Bome MT Pro to convert MIDI message for you.

I actually have several DAW’s loaded (mostly demo version) but I only use them if I can for testing when users come to this board with questions.

I have a good new. I changed the USB cable. I put the speed 155200 baud in com3 
port in windows 7 and in MTpro. 
I receive a lot of data. As soon as I move a vpot data is sent through the USB port 
and received in MTpro. but the data seems crazy. I have for the same vpot data pitchbend 
data notes polypressure data ... a little bit of everything and in a totally random order.
 the same vpot position does not give the same result.

we are progressing

I'm going for tonight. I'm going to go to sleep a very big day is waiting for me tomorrow. 
Thank you for the information and your help. I think we can be find a solution. 
good night, see you tomorrow.
eric

usually, there is no risk in trying different baud rates. If you chose the wrong baud rate, you’ll get corrupt data instead of the correct one.
155200 is a bad baud rate! Please use the drop-down list in the baud rate setup in MT Pro to try all standard baud rates.

hi florian,

I Florian,

i use the drop-down list in the baud rate setup in MT Pro to try all standard baud rates. i use 115200.

sorry!

I will test lower speeds

 

hi Florian
So, after all the possible tests I have to accept the evidence.
mackie TT24 will never play the role of control surface.
the data that MTPRO receives is convincing when cubase sends mixing information. 
Panoramic faders ... everything works but nothing is interpreted by the table. 
in the opposite direction even thing. all for one reason. it is impossible to define 
the private protocol of mackie TT24. if I set the baud rate as you told me I get data 
but they are not convincing. if I set the speed to 9600 baud TT24 software works well 
and the TT24 software fader moves when I move the fader of the table. but there TT24 
software no longer grants me access to com3 port so I can never anlyser conclusively 
the flow of data. all that remains is the com3 port data analysis by the serial 
port monitor software. but can you do something next? your time is precious and I don't 
want to abuse your kindness and your skills. I bought MTPRO thinking that mackie TT24
 would reveal its secrets. it is an uthopia.
do you still want a serial port file?

hi

here is the analysis file. I only moved the first fader.

hello Florian, hello steeve, I did not have any answers to my last post. Have you been 
able to look at the com3 port scan file?

I buy the non beta version but since the installation of the beta version the software 
tells me that I only have 49 days of use possible

best reagards

eric

 

I see a .spm file but didn’t know how to open it. It does not appear to be a text file.

i use this software

 

serial port monitor software.

https://www.eltima.com/products/serial-port-monitor/

Hi, please see if you can export as text. I really don’t want to load this software onto my computer. I’ve used other software by them before and it messed up my serial port configuration.

ok

I copied the data into wordpad

Hello,

here are some interesting files

what software do you use for the analysis. I will try to download it

Hi, The messages with starting with Ex seem promising. They look like they might be pitch bend messages

For instance EE 5F 6E looks like it could be moving fader #5 with with LSB 5F and MSB 6E.

I would recommend, you try sending a message like these to the the COM3 port and see if any faders move.
The messages that start with less than 8 in the first byte look like they always show as a timeout.
F8 looks like a MIDI sync message.
CF 5A looks like a knob controller change.

Again, I would try sending the fader message at 9600 baud and see if anything changes. Since your unit has motorized faders, you should be able to see if they move.

Steve

I just opened a text editor and looked at the files you posted. I’m just looking for common MIDI type messages.

I saw in one of your messages you use puttytel. I installed it.
here is the setting.and here is what I get

I found a program that duplicates the com3 port (virtual serial port). this should avoid: access denied

I would do tests tomorrow night
Good night

Hi, I’m not sure you will be able to send this data with Puttytel. Puttytel is an ascii based terminal emulator and the bytes I’m seeing are really just hex representation of 8 bit binary values.

Best to open the COM3 port with MT Pro and then send the raw binary bytes from there as you would normally sent MIDI values.

Steve