BOME Network Midi Latency

Hi All,

I just used my 2-BomeBox setup for the first time during a rehearsal, and although everything connected and powered up as expected, I was surprised to experience substantial and uneven latency of my midi stream.

I realize this may or may not be due to the BOME boxes themselves, as there are now quite a few devices in the path of what was previously a single DIN cable.  Nevertheless I'd appreciate some help in solving this.

My current signal path:

M-Audio Keystation88 > USB Cable > Stage BomeBox > 50' Rapco Tactical Ethernet Cable > TP-Link POE Switch > Short Ethernet Cable > Rack BomeBox > DIN Cable > Proteus Rackmount Synth

The issue:

While playing the keyboard, notes are delayed to a varying but musically-noticeable degree.  The amount of delay seems to be worst when CC data is involved via the pitch wheel.  I would estimate the delay to range from near the threshold of detection (10ms-20ms causing minor difficulty when placing the notes of a groovy bass line) upward to 100ms-150ms (sounds to the ear like uneven playing. )

I'm well-equipped to troubleshoot this setup myself, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts on what aspect of the signal chain is most likely to be causing the delays.

Thanks All!

Hi,

The first things I would look into are:

1. Firmware version of BomeBoxes. Current version is 1.4.1
2. Other attached MIDI devices (sending random or excessive MIDI data)
3. Network performance (Try standard network tools like ping)
4. Other devices that may be on the same local LAN causing excessive network traffic.
5. Misconfiguration  of BomeBox router advanced functions causing network loops or storms.

 

I’ve only experienced this type of issue when connecting wirelessly or if there are other instruments attached that are sending random MIDI data which can clock up the MIDI pipe.

On older firmware, I had experienced some MIDI routing issues but I’m not sure this is related to your situation. This was all cleared up in version 1.4.1

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

I was able to do a bit of troubleshooting this weekend and found the following:
1 – Firmware version is up to date on both boxes.
2 – Very few MIDI devices are intentionally connected… just a MIDI controller keyboard and the Proteus Synth, as well as my iPhone via Bluetooth LE dongle. Only one App is running (set list maker,) and the app is not showing excessive MIDI activity. I can look into this further at a later time.
3 – Ping is showing identical results of 1ms-7.5ms between my WiFi-attached laptop and either BomeBox. Of course, I’m currently unable to do any tests while performing the parts simultaneously. More later.
4 – The LAN currently consists of the 2 bomeboxes, a passive POE switch, my x32 mixer, and a travel router. My laptop was also connected via WiFi. The router’s uplink is not currently connected, so there’s no network data coming in from the LAN port. It is possible that my laptop was introducing additional traffic.
5 – Although I have indeed navigated into the BomeBox advanced functions menus, I have not changed any settings there. (I know you and I discussed this at length before I received my BomeBoxes, but by the time they arrived I had purchased the travel router to avoid the need to make any advanced configuration changes.) The BomeBoxes are near their default states… no custom routing, basic access point mode (on box 1 only,) with passwords set up for ethernet and wifi login; and with Bome Network connections initiated and paired.

However, I did find something else that suggests a culprit…
If I play my Keystation88 while connected to the stage-side BomeBox by USB I experience shifting latency.
If I connect my 88key roland digital piano to the stage-side BomeBox by a MOTU 1×1 Usb/MIDI interface, there is no latency to speak of.
For context, the Keystation88 exhibits no delay when its DIN output is connected directly to the synth module.

This suggests to me that the Keystation88 has a faulty USB/MIDI interface. Or perhaps its internal MIDI engine is blasting garbage data (which could technically be invisible to a midi-monitor app as it could easily be outside the MIDI protocol.) Or perhaps the 100mA of USB power from the BomeBox is insufficient for powering the Keystation88, and one of the above states is the result.

I’ll do some more testing to confirm, but it certainly seems like the issue is exclusive to the Keystation88 USB port and NOT the Bome Box. Open to comments and interpretations.

Best,

Chris

Check to see if you have a high grade shielded USB cable. Try a different cable. Maybe there is some RF interference in play here. Since you are powering BomeBox by POE, I don’t think it is a power issue. I have a Alesis Q88 and I have experienced some latency with low quality USB cables so maybe that is it. Also hook up your Keystation88 to MT pro and see if it sends Active Sensing (FE) messages. If so, see if you can filter them out in your project file or if there is an option to turn off active sensing. A lot of MIDI equipment does not like Active Sensing. Steve

I will give that a try and let you know. Thanks!

And just like that, I can no longer replicate the issue.

Probably a flaky cable somewhere in your arsenal that moving it around will exhibit the problem.

Update: The issue has been replicated. It is exclusive to the Keystation88’s USB data bus.
-Other midi controllers do not exhibit the issue when connected to the bbox over USB
-The Keystation88’s DIN output does not exhibit the issue, even when the k88 is POWERED over USB. (I connected both the USB and the DIN between bbox and k88, then filtered out the USB midi at the bbox. No issues.)

Next, I will filter out Active Sensing at the USB input and see where it gets me.

Thanks for the update!

Ok, finally had a moment.

The k88 seems to send active sensing on its DIN port only. Filtering does not affect the lagginess.
Plugging the k88 USB directly into my Mio10 USB host jack exhibits NO latency
Plugging the k88 USB into the BomeBox USB input exhibits shifting latency
Pluggin the k88 DIN into the BomeBox DIN input exhibits NO latency.

So, the issue is not the USB cable. (Same cable used for connection to BomeBox and Mio)
The issue is not the k88 USB port (No issue when direct connected to an interface)
The issue is not Active Sensing. (Active Sensing not sent from k88 USB, and although it is sent from K88 DIN, it causes no issues on that signal chain.)
The issue appears only when plugged into the BomeBox, and then only when using the USB-MIDI port. (Weird, right?)
My next step will be to plug directly into a Bome box over USB and listen to the DIN output. This should suggest whether the issue is happening at the physcial port interfaces or over the network.
Any advice or comment is appreciated.

Which version of the Keystation 88 do you have?

KeyStation 88 ES – Released around 2004-2005
KeyStation Pro 88 – Released around 2004-2005
KeyStation 88 II – Released around 2017-2018

For the first two, it may not be completely USB MIDI Class Compliant as if I understand correctly, you had to install drivers on both Mac and Windows.

I haven’t checked on class compliance on the last one but it would be more than likely that it is.

If you have one of the older models, you may need to just stick with the MIDI DIN port instead of USB.

It is indeed the older 88es. What would make the k88 respond without lag when plugged directly into a mio10, yet cause issues with the Bome? Just different handling of the USB driver? I can use the DIN if I must. I’m just trying to reduce cabling on stage, and USB must be present for supplying power anyway (even if just plugged into a USB charging block.)

Yes, different driver likely but the MIO 10 has been out there a lot longer and possibly even before class compliant came into play. I’m pretty sure that Bome only claims to support USB class compliant MIDI. I have an old Roland that has option built in to use standard drivers or enhanced drivers. Turns out the standard drivers are class compliant but if I try to use enhanced drivers, it doesn’t work.

Steve

MIO 10 is a class-compliant USB-MIDI interface from 2017 by iConnectivity.
Keystation88es may be what you meant in your comment above?

I tried hooking up my Keystation to the BomeBox via USB and adding an internal route to send it right back out the local DIN.

The laggy behaviour continued.  This suggests that the issue exists at the BomeBox’s USB interface, and not on the Ethernet layer.

I’m ready to hang this up and concede that the esteemed Steve Caldwell nailed it:  The k88 is not USB class compliant.  Without the proper driver, the midi signals sent over USB are clocked incorrectly and may be lost.

Thanks for the all the help!

No. My bad. I thought the MIO 10 was older. I guess it is just more forgiving.