suddenly my project won't load

After my usual workflow of making some changes to input notes in a couple of presets in BMTP, I uploaded the project as always, but suddenly there was no output. I upload the file, then do "select" as always, and everything looks right. After investigating, though, I see that the MIDI ports page says "no project." The BomeBox input DIN is set to my controller as always and open, but BomeBox DIN output is closed, so there's no MIDI at all passing through. When I go back to the Translator page, I then see my project isn't active, so I select it again, but the same situation continues. I've tried restarting my BomeBox, but I don't know what else to try. When this happens, BMTP shows input with no output, then when I close the project in the BomeBox's web page, the project functions correctly from inside BMTP.

I'm attaching my project here and appreciate any troubleshooting help.

 

 

I got it to work again. It seems that, at one point, the MIDI Ports page started letting me make choices after I uploaded a toy project. When I went back to the real one, it was working, and the BomeBox DIN output no longer showed as closed. I'm attaching a screenshot of that page--it's correct, right?

 

The question is: what might have thrown things off in the first place? All I did was a minor tweak, then suddenly the output DIN can't be opened. Can the port settings suddenly get hosed from some sort of bad communication? I hope I don't have to just write this off as bad WiFi conditions again. At this point, the BomeBox is sitting on top of stuff, three feet from the computer, which has line of sight to the box. I do have that latency issue when using BMTP, which isn't a terribly big deal in my case, but is it possible my BomeBox's WiFi isn't up to standard? I really don't see how my environment's WiFi is much different from other studios'. Is there a specific quality test for the BomeBox's hotspot?

Hi,

I tried loading your project onto a BomeBox and got the message attached. This usually means that the signature is not correct, that you are uploading after editing in an unlicensed (trial) version of MT Pro or that you modified the contents after editing in MT Pro (which will invalidate the signature).

 

Did you do any editing to your project file outside of MT Pro?  If so, after doing your edits, reload the project into MT Pro tool, then re-save it so that it gets the correct signature, then upload it and try again.  I've included a copy of the file (with my licensed signature) if you want to give it a try.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

No editing of the project file outside of MT Pro. How do you even do that? In any case, that same error has popped up for me 2-3 times, then it just goes away. I just assumed your software phones home to authenticate and network conditions well known in my region caused the foulup. But if you’re experiencing the same error, what could account for it? I’ve only ever used BMTP because I bought that along with the BomeBox.

OK, I made a cosmetic change, then re-saved and am uploading my project again here.

Hmm, the only other thing I can think of is an incomplete of the project file. But the chances of you and me both getting an incomplete upload is pretty low. Maybe a bad spot on the computer hard disk created a corruption of the file in the signature area which would still allow the project file to load and execute on your PC. Yes the project file can be opened in a text editor. I do this once in a while if I want to do global search and replace. It is a bit dangerous to do though since global search and replace is dumb and may replace things you don't want to replace. Also the format of some of the file although readable is not that user friendly for editing. If you ever edit it outside of MT Pro, first make a backup copy and then when you are done editing, open, save and close the edited file in MT Pro to ensure the signature is updated for BomeBox execution. Steve

It's possible I had the demo version of BMTP installed before I actually installed Pro. I just can't remember, but I can't rule it out. Could some weird artifact of that cause the authentication error? But then, how could it also happen on your computer? In any case, has the second upload worked? I'd still like to know the source of this odd behavior where the output DIN suddenly gets shut down. It's the first time that's happened, but that is an impactful glitch.

I don't remember ever seeing a situation where the DIN ports showed closed. Did you see that as well? I assume you are using the latest version of BomeBox firmware. 1.4.1

Yes, the MIDI Output BomeBox DIN showed "closed," and there was no active dropdown menu. I just re-verified that firmware is 1.4.1.

The only time I think the DIN port would show closed is if you have a project that is not using it. I just tested this with a project that I have that doesn't use the DIN port.

I only have the one project, and in my setup I'll always use that DIN. In fact, due to the latency problem over WiFi, I'll never be able to use my BomeBox with software modules.

Also, if your alias is not-assigned or not assigned to the MIDI DIN port, the MIDI DIN port would also show closed. When you close any projects it should show open again which is the default configuration if no projects are loaded.

Hi, I'm periodically experiencing similar problems with my modified and signed project file, so I've escalated your case. In my case I no longer get the bad signature message, however the project file will not restart unless I reboot my BomeBox. Stay tuned.

Remember that my lone project and its workflow were working fine when suddenly I got the closed port situation. There's just nothing to account for this glitch, and also recall that the Ports page of the web interface started showing no project was loaded even though the Translator page showed otherwise and then would show not loaded later so that I'd have to "select" again. One other symptom when this glitch happening: when I'd do the "select," there was a particularly long latency before the notes stopped playing through BMTP. Normally, as soon as I select, all latency disappears and I can see BMTP's log window no longer registers activity. While the glitch was in effect, BMTP's log window would continue to log input for at least 30 seconds, and I was able to play the controller until it would suddenly go silent. I'm running MacOS Catalina, by the way.

Yes, I remember but thanks for the reminder!

Any word yet? The problem has gotten worse for me. Now, every time my BomeBox restarts, there's no MIDI output. I have to start Bome Net on a computer and go in to manually do the MIDI setup every time.

I've tried replacing that project with a much smaller one that uses the active presets from the original one. Same problem: select doesn't survive a power cycle.

Hi, we are looking into it and will let you know when we find something. This is an unusual issue and we have not seen it before. Fortunately it is still running after a reboot. We understand that it is impactful and appreciate your patience while we try to figure out what is happening. Steve Caldwell Bome Q and A Moderator and Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz

OK, thanks. If I try something myself in the way of troubleshooting, I'll post that info here in case it might be useful to the people helping behind the scenes. I understand that you don't need to respond specifically to any small update I might post. If you have any small tests you'd like me to run and report the results, I can do that, too.

OK, the approach I would recommend is to start disabling and removing functionality until the problem disappears. Then we could compare the working file with the non-working file and perhaps it would give us some clues.

After trimming it down to two presets, then adding stuff back, then adding/removing (including qwerty keyboard) to zero in, it appears that removing patch #16, named \"Xm\" fixes the problem. It\'s hard to be 100% confident because I\'d power cycle 3 times on each test run, but who knows if that\'s enough to rule out randomness or mistakes on my part. I\'m also not confident because that patch #16 isn\'t even enabled, so it doesn\'t make sense to me that it could have an effect.

Also: my BomeBox takes about 55 seconds to boot up, or at least reach a point where my patch works. Is that normal? I watch the blinking lights, but it still takes some time after they reach what looks to me to be a stable state before the patches start responding to the MIDI controller.

So that file worked for a few days over several power cycles, then suddenly stopped working. I'd left my BomeBox untouched, but on the latest power cycle, it had somehow become de-selected, and I could make it work again. I had to reduce to another one from my working collection that has many fewer presets.

Now, even a greatly reduced file doesn't survive more than a couple of power cycles. My box has now gotten steadily worse so that it's unusable without the computer. And it's not usable with the computer because the WiFi has never performed without extreme latency. Is there a previous version of the firmware that would be worth rolling back to at this point? At what point do we conclude the hardware itself is defective?

Drop me an email and I will send you an older version of BomeBox firmware to try. I usually don't like doing this but it looks like your situation is critical. Steve Caldwell Bome Q and A Moderator and Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz

OK, thanks. I'm happy to run tests because I'm out of ideas. The whittling-down method has turned out to be a bust and the problem just seems intermittent, with a mind of its own. I did find the previous firmwares on the web site, but I haven't tried because downgrading firmware scares me a little. The latest one was 1.3.2--should I try that? Should I do a full reset first? I don't care if I lose the one loaded preset and have to manually reload it.

My email to you was rejected as spam. There was nothing even remotely spam-like in the short message asking you to email a firmware if the online firmware archive isn't enough.

First try removing all of the project files you uploaded (after backing up what you need of course). Do a factory reset. Then install just the project file you want to try and see if things stabilize on existing firmware. If things don't stabilize from there, do the same after installing older firmware 1.3.2. I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble! Steve Caldwell Bome Q and A Moderator and Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz

What email address did you try? I'm getting email from others just fine. I know the bome email servers are rejecting some emails as SPAM but my email address bome@sniz.biz which is not a Bome email server seems to be doing OK. Or if not, your's is the first complaint I've heard and I get email at that address daily.

It was indeed bome@sniz.biz. I realize I forwarded an email notification from this web site, then added my message to it. Perhaps that made it look more spam-like.

In any case, I'll do the re-set and downgrade the next time the box chokes. I might as well enjoy it before I start doing troubleshooting chores.

Hi,
finally I found the time to look into this. Sorry for the long delay. Here are a few findings:

1) Firmware Version
I strongly encourage to use the latest firmware. Especially regarding the persistence of settings such as the currently loaded project file, version 1.4.1 has a number of improvements over previous firmware versions. It is safe to downgrade and upgrade at any time. Just make sure to keep the BomeBox powered during upgrade.
The latest firmware can be downloaded here:
https://www.bomeloft.com/products/bomebox#downloads

2) MIDI DIN port closed
As Steve has pointed out, this is only the case when the DIN port is not used by MIDI routes or the translation project file. So if you also found that the project file got unloaded, then I assume that the closed DIN port is just a symptom rather than the cause. Because when the project is unloaded, the DIN port is likely to not be in use anymore, and therefore it's getting closed. On a side note, the BomeBox only opens the MIDI ports (network, DIN, and USB) when needed in order to use less power.

Another aspect is that your project file does not define the BomeBox DIN port directly rather, you have defined 2 aliases ("BomeBox - Net" and "ZenDrum") and I assume that you then assign one of them to the BomeBox DIN port. The BomeBox remembers these port assignments in the same way as it remembers the currently loaded project file. Now if we assume that somehow saving these settings fails (or loading), then it would also explain why the MIDI port assignment gets lost. See next point.

3) Project suddenly getting unloaded
I have tried a lot to reproduce this, but I could not. Your project file is relatively big, but not anywhere near the practical limit for a BomeBox. With loaded project file, the BomeBox still has 24MB free RAM.

As said above, one theory is that it somehow fails to remember which project file is currently active. The BomeBox logs exactly the parameter of these settings files, you can see notices such as this in the Log screen in the web config:
2020-04-05 10:48:06: save settings OK: last modified=2020-04-05 10:48:06 filesize=535 filename:/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts
When you power cycle the BomeBox, the notice for loading the settings must match the last saving notice before the power cycle.
Note 1: the BomeBox discards the Log when restarting, so be sure to copy/paste it before power cycling when checking this out.
Note 2: If I remember correctly, the Log is not available in the web config in older firmware.

4) Long start-up time
The BomeBox takes approx. 20 seconds until DIN and USB are available. Ethernet setup takes some additional seconds. WiFi takes an additional 10 seconds to be up. In your case, loading the project file takes approx. 20 seconds. That's why you see a relatively long boot time until everything is ready.

5) WiFi latency
You have mentioned that using the BomeBox WiFi exhibits very long latency. In general, the WiFi does not have inherent delay. We know from many customers who use realtime MIDI over WiFi in their live setups. We use the BomeBox WiFi non-stop in our test environment in the office, and use one as a HotSpot for our company WiFi without any problems.

We have only experienced problems when the BomeBox is far away or behind walls etc. Of course, general interferences or other WiFi networks can also degrade performance. Make sure to select your country in the WiFi setup (to leverage the legally allowed WiFi frequencies). In the advanced configuration, you can also manually select a different WiFi channel.

So far for now. I'll keep you posted when I find out anything. Please keep us posted, too!
Best,
Florian

After waiting so long for a response, it's truly disappointing that he did not make one single suggestion of the form, "click this box," or "set this setting," or "make this look like that," etc. If there's a concrete suggestion anywhere in that very long response, then clearly I'm too inexperienced to comprehend it, and I beg for mercy as an inexperienced user. Taking the points separately, here's what I understand:

paragraph 1) Don't downgrade. OK, I understand--and I've never tried downgrading.

paragraph 4) He verifies my startup time is normal. OK, we're finished with that.

paragraph 5) WiFi latency: am I correct that he only basically says "it works great for us"? If that's in fact all he's said, why wouldn't he expect such a response to make an owner of one of these boxes who's been waiting so long to use it very angry? I know it works for other people, but the problem is that mine has never worked. Given that there's nothing at all unusual about my location, why is there not a single diagnostic or suggestion to verify whether or not this particular box is defective? Once again, I verified that upon startup there's no latency, then latency builds up after about 20 MIDI notes. The latency itself isn't even consistent, sometimes notes bunch up, then burst through all at once. Is this behavior symptomatic of my environment, which doesn't differ from an ordinary apartment in any way I've experienced or can imagine?

I can at least work around a defective WiFi or defective apartment--whichever it may be-- if we could just do something about what's in paragraph's 2 and 3, but I simply can't deduce anything to try from the sense I'm able to make of what he's written.

paragraph 2) When he says ".Another aspect is that your project file does not define the BomeBox DIN port directly..." is he saying that's a problem, a potential problem, a routine configuration choice, or what? I have no idea what his intention is here or what he suggests I do to make things more in line with how he designed this box to work. I simply don't understand what to do here or what to change. Let's just proceed as if I don't have the first idea of how the MIDI output, input, and router sections work. If you guys could just say "click this," "verify this looks like that," provide a screenshot, and things like that, then maybe we can make some kind of troubleshooting progress. In the MIDI Output and Input areas, there is no choice that reads "BomeBox DIN Port" as Florian refers to,  so I'm completely at a loss as to what he apparently recommends to choose. Perhaps say directly and step-by-step what I should do? I do know that once I unclick something in input or output to test things, then all activity ceases in the event monitor. Then, when I re-click the boxes to make them as they originally appeared, there's still nothing in the event monitor. I have to disconnect from BomeNet, then re-connect to get things working again. Since this behavior strikes me as making no sense at all, I think you will have to hold my hand through these settings and be very literal in your instructions.

paragraph 3) He says, "BomeBox logs exactly the parameter of these settings file," which is a remarkably opaque English sentence to me, and English is my native language. OK, it saves settings, but then there's a reference to a file named ":/etc/mt/playerheadless.bmts ." I have no idea what that file is, what its function is, where it comes from, how to look at its contents, and its filename doesn't match my config file. By the way, I only ever have one config file loaded on my BomeBox so that I can eliminate the possibility of that kind of mixup. The relationship of this file named playerheadless.bmts and my .bmtp file is a complete technical mystery to me. I beg of you, treat me like a user--perhaps a power user--but not a software engineer who knows the function of files located in /etc/mt of a Unix system.

I might have thought you guys would make a change or two to my .bmtp file, then send that to me to try. Then I'd report back. Then you'd tweak again, etc. At this point, I think it would be best if you treated me like a non-technical person who's good only at executing literally what you say to do in manageable increments because it's clear that I'm unable to understand the workings of this device sufficiently to troubleshoot it.

Perhaps you could start out with a concrete series of steps I can take to make my MIDI OUTPUT and MIDI INPUT sections look the way Florian seemingly expected them to look? Or is there some diagnostic to run to make sure this particular box isn't defective?

 

 

 

Hi. Let me see if I can help here.  I've created 2 project files. One will run on your computer and the other on you BomeBox.

The project file named bb-test-computer.bmtp should be loaded on the computer.

The project file named BB-Net-Loopback.bmtp should be uploaded and run on your BomeBox.

First I assume your BomeBox and Computer have connectivity.  The below tutorials should help you get this set up but I think you are probably past this point.

Pairing BomeBox - Tutorial

https://youtu.be/xfdspJuBAHg

BomeBox Web Config Overview

https://youtu.be/RvQaCzkYYls

 

Other BomeBox Tutorials

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzwHsH6-VZ8SJw5VztKiEDleEFAx8p7K8

 

1. Upload BB-Net-Loopback.bmtp to your BomeBox and run it.  Set up the aliases both to your network computer.
2. Verify that your routing has automatically been set up as a loopback by looking at your MIDI routes
3. Start the file bb-test-computer.bmtp on your computer.
4. You should be prompted to assign your aliases. Assign them to your BomeBox. If you miss this or have them incorrectly assigned, you can re-assign them from the MIDI menu.

The project file should start sending notes to your BomeBox every 500ms. If it doesn't, the Caps Lock key will both start and stop the MIDI stream.

Open the log window and ensure that the messages are getting looped back correctly. You should see something like the attached.

 

Another thing to look at that may affect WiFI performance is the country setup. Make sure you select your country in the Setting page.

 

OK, once this testing is complete.  Power off your BomeBox. You can leave the project running on your computer but the messages coming back from BomeBox will stop.

After about 10 seconds, power on your BomeBox again.  The power light should start to flash. When it stops flashing, the pairing should re-establish.  If it does not, please report what you had to do to reconnect to your computer.

Once re-connected, the log should start seeing returned MIDI messages again as the project on the BomeBox should start thereby re-establishing the loopback.

If everything is working  at this point, then the issue is likely somewhere in your project file (since you are now using the project files I posted).  I'm happy to take a quick look at it again to see if I can find any issues.  Let me know if you have made any changes.

If things to not work as expected with this procedure, please let me know in as much detail what is happening so we can figure next steps.

 

Other things that might help:

I'm not sure if I asked this but can you tell me how you have your BomeBox powered? Is it being powered via a USB hub,  USB power adapter, POE? Also, lets review the devices attached and how they are attached. If I remember you had something on the MIDI DIN port. Do you have anything attached to USB ports? Are you using a USB powered hub.  Any specific configuration details should help

 

In doing this testing, make sure that you only have your network attached (no devices).  If the problem only exhibits an issue if there are devices attached, please clarify which devices and how they are attached.

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

 

After looking over this case again, I think the most likely cause here will be how power is provided to BomeBox along with how much power is drawn from any attached USB devices.  If suggest you look at that FIRST before running any tests as without stable power, you may get mixed results. Let's focus on power to make sure that is stable before we move on to anything else.  In my experience, most issues with BomeBox rebooting, or not behaving properly after reboot ended up being power related. 

Some tips:

 

1) Do not use USB charging ports for BomeBox power as they tend to vary in voltage as they are trying to charge a battery and do not provide consistent power. Your power should provide a consistent 5V of power. The BomeBox uses about 150ma of power but attached devices may take up to another 1a so I would recomment at least your power supply can deliver about 1.2 amps of consistent 5v of power.

 

2) If you have multiple USB devices attached to your BomeBox, I recomment powering it with a POE adapter instead of the micro usb port as the POE adapter provides a higher voltage to BomeBox and make it less sensitive to slight voltage variations that take place when connecting or disconnecting attached USB devices. I like the POE option as well as it has a nice locking mechanism.

I hope this helps and sorry for not thinking of power sooner!

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

Thanks, I'll start this testing tomorrow. For now, I'll let you know that it's powered via an iPhone charger that's plugged directly into an outlet. My configuration is a MIDI controller (Zendrum) plugged into the MIDI in, and MIDI out to a series of MIDI sound modules. I've reduced the sound modules to my minimum of two. I can also unplug the USB keyboard.

Another thing making this task utterly difficult is this forum's layout. It's in some kind of reverse chronological order in nested groups that are in forward chronological order, confused by the nested levels that depend on whether an "add comment" was done, or a "post your answer." The "add comment" spins forever when added, but after a page reload, it shows the comment posted, but with all formatting removed, including carriage returns so that posts of any length are unreadable. Then I have to delete it and go to the bottom of the page's "post answer." But when I "post answer," I can't see what I'm responding to it's so far away, so I have to keep re-finding what I'm responding to by scrolling up and down the page, then remember, then scroll back down, then type something, then scroll back up to refind your post. I've been on hundreds of forums in my life, and I've never seen one laid out like this. Unless it's a very recent cluster, I just can't follow the thread of what's gone on, and it's no wonder you forgot whatever it is you said you forgot--I'm sorry, I'd have to scroll up, re-read your post again to remind myself of what you forgot, then scroll back down to the bottom of the page, then scroll back up to refind it because I don't dare make any errors and confuse things and waste our time, or retrace my steps, etc....The lack of formatting, quoting, proper nested levelling and predictable chronological order--what decade is this forum software from?

Can I ask you to go over to Elektronauts or Muff Wiggler and we'll open a discussion thread there to handle this?

I just got an email notification of your \"after looking over this case again\" response, and good God, if it weren\'t for the email notification, I don\'t see how I ever would have found that response in this forum software\'s chaotic and utterly unintelligibly formatted layout. As noted before, it has some sort of inconsistently nested leveling, but without indentation so that everything so that you just can\'t follow what the hell is going on. I beg of you: meet me at Elektronauts.

EDIT: Omigod, the thing you said, which this is a response to, is two posts down, with my more recent one intervening. This thread is a huge, unreadable mess. Emailing back and forth would be more clear and efficient.

Hi, yes along with software development we are exploring other forum based solutions. We are aware or the current forum issues. If you provide a link for the forum you want to discuss this, I will see if I can sign in or sign up there and link to it from here. Although some iphone external batters I've found OK, some of them also act like a "fast charging" device so I would suggest trying something else for a while to see if your problem goes away. I actually had an external battery for my iphone that misbehaved so badly it destroyed my iphone battery and I had to buy a new battery. Once I started using the external battery, my iphone battery was completely dependent on the external battery and would not last more than just a few hours on it's own. It is best to stick with a standard USB power adapter or better still if AC power is available use a POE adapter. Steve

Thank you for verifying this forum software is an issue. I'd been embarassed to say so, thinking I must be stupid in some way.

I've created this thread at Elektronauts:

https://www.elektronauts.com/t/steve-from-bome-helping-blipson-thread/127533

If we could start with you re-posting your "let's start" info, I would appreciate it. I can get to this within 24 hours, but must now take a break because, quite frankly, my experience on this board in the last few hours has been quite maddening.

 

OK posted your original report and the diagnostic procedure there. Looks like the admins there marked it as private.

Steve, I've finally received and configured everything with an iConnectivity mioXM. All the same problems continue. I've continued our discussion in our Elektronauts conversation. Can you please continue to communicate with me there?

Hi, Try assigning your problem aliases to other names that are not "automatically create" by the BomeBox. Instead of "BomeBox - Net" which is an automatically assigned alias, try "My BomeBox" or some such. With that said, when running on BomeBox, you probably would not bye using an aliases with BomeBox in it so just give it some other generic name.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

OK, I've fixed the aliases. But my main problem continues as it has for months. Can you address it and the screenshots I posted at Elektronauts?

I provided the same answer there. I'm really not wanting to double post as this is our official support forum. Steve Caldwell Bome Q and A Moderator and Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz

After re-assigning the aliases you will probably need to manually assign once more but then it should remember them after that.

My main problem is not about aliases, it\'s about the Bome Box failing to maintain the currently loaded configuration after power cycling. That\'s why this thread is entitled \"suddenly my project won\'t load.\" This minor alias problem is now fixed, but I\'ve had this ongoing problem that I\'ve put a lot of effort and expense into trying to fix, and now that I\'ve re-configured everything, the problem continues to happen, that is, the problem of failing to re-load after power cycling.

Also, you do not have any other port assignment in your project at the top level so you need to assign your desired input and output ports there as well. The presets and translator assignment can override these however.

 

For instance you don't have a defined input ports assigned  in presets 1 or 2 of the presets or at the project level.

 

 

When I'm running BMT, should I just select "BomeBox - Net" in both the MIDI Input and MIDI Output sections?

Hi, I can understand your frustration, however if ports and/or aliases are not defined in your project file, you will ALWAYS be prompted for them when you reload your project.

 

I haven't analyzed the files to your intent so at the project level, I recommend you set up and check aliases for "all ports" that you will be using. Then override as appropriate at the preset and translator level depending on your desired routing.  Always use aliases an not real port names as your project file will not be portable between  your computer and BomeBox if you do not. Also always use aliases that are not "auto assigned" by BomeBox.

 

I hope this helps!

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

To be honest, I don\'t fully understand what you mean. Can you spell it out in gory detail or recipe format? Sorry about this--I\'m not a total dummy because, as you can see, I\'ve put together detailed patches, but somehow I just don\'t seem to get this MIDI routing issue. Doing what I\'ve done, I\'m able to test while using BMT (though I have that latency issue), and then transfer to the Bome Box, where everything continues to work as expected, except for that power cycling issue. Since everything basically works, I don\'t understand what I\'m not doing right. It sounds like you\'re implying that getting the MIDI configuration issue correct in BMT may fix the power cycling problem, so I\'m asking for a n00b-level explanation. Can you edit my bmtp file and send it to me?

When a project is loaded on BomeBox, it first looks for all real ports assigned and tries to assign them. However it is most often the case that the real ports on BomeBox are not the same real ports on MT Pro. This is where aliases come in.

So once BomeBox assigns any real ports it looks to see what is left and assumes they are aliases. If the aliases are previously known, it just re-assigns them based on the last loaded configuration.  Keep in mind that if you have multiple projects that use the same aliases with different assignments, BomeBox may assign them wrong.

If it cannot find an alias, it prompts you to assign it in the configuration screen you showed me. That assignment should be persistent across re-starts. Keep in mind, that if you use a different project file, with the same aliases and different assignments, it may assign them incorrectly so it is best to keep your project file aliases different unless you always want to assign the aliases the same.

There are some auto-aliases assigned by BomeBox for network ports.  For instance if you have a BomeBox called "BomeBox1" on your network, it will be assigned "BomeBox1 - Net".  You should avoid using these alias names and treat them more like "real port names".

As far as your project file, let me know the real names of the input an output ports you want to use and an alias name you want to assign it at all level, and I can update the project file accordingly.

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

My input port is the Bome Box's MIDI in DIN, and my output port is the Bome Box's MIDI out DIN. I will only ever have one project file. I would like to assign the name "ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve" to the correct port to select.

Here is the project file.

Again, you will be prompted to assign these aliases the first time you load it on BomeBox.  After that it should remember the former assignments unless you change them again.

 

 

I've downloaded and opened it in BMT. I should now simply assign both in and out to "BomeBox - Net"?

Yes if running on your PC, however if running on BomeBox since you are using MIDI DIN ports assign them to your MIDI DIN ports instead.

 

 

That was my toy file. I believe I've now made the necessary change to my production file, which I've attached here. Can you please verify?

 

 

No, you need to go through the entire project file at the project, preset and translator level and change any reference from "BomeBox - Net" to "ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve".  Uncheck any Boxes that show "BomeBox -Net" and instead check the boxes "ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve"

 

See the below video for how to manage your inputs and outputs at project, preset and translator level.

Tutorial

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

I've watched the tutorial, and I think I'm starting to understand where I've gone wrong with the MIDI routes stuff. However, may I please n00b-out one more time and ask you to add the "ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve" to my production file that I've now cleaned up and attached?

I'm asking for hand-holding here because 1) I won't fully understand the tutorial for a while; 2) I think this will be a once-and-for-all-time solution because my Bome Box has only ever been dedicated to adapting one controller's (Zendrum's) velocity response to my sound modules; and 3) based on experience, I wouldn't be able to rule out the power cycle issue for days to months, and I don't want the toy file to block me from using my stuff if that's not necessary.

OK, here\'s what I\'ve done.

1) I went through every patch to make sure it selected only default MIDI ports.

2) I loaded your version of the toy project, and BMT prompted me to assign the ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve alias. For both input and output, I assigned it to \"BomeBox - Net.\" That created the alias, which is now available in BMT regardless of which project I load. My earlier problem of not being able to delete an alias was apparently because the old alias had been created on two different computers. I\'d deleted it on one, but not the other, so it had to be deleted twice. I didn\'t realize these aliases are BMT\'s and not the project file\'s.

3) I went to the Project Properties page and  selected ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve for both input and output.

4) In all my time with BMT, I\'ve never changed--or even thought of changing-any translator from its default choice of MIDI ports, but I went through every translator in every patch to verify that each one selects \"Project/Preset Default Ports\" for both input and output. This was not applicable in the case of patches involving only the USB keyboard. I scrolled through fast, but I expect I didn\'t miss anything because, as I said, I\'ve never ever made a change here in any translator.

5)  I uploaded to the Bome Box, selected, and assigned \"ThisIsTheCorrectPortToSelectPerSteve\" to \"BomeBox DIN\" for input and output.

Everything works as expected, but that doesn\'t mean the problem is solved. We\'ll now see if the configuration file gets loaded at each power cycle. I do verify that the WiFi latency problem continues as it always has. It could be hours to months to verify the power cycling issue. If it survives the first power cycle (as I\'ve now verified that it has), then that has always implied that it will continue to work at least until some change is made to the project file, and I might not be making any changes for a while. Even then, the failure-to-reload-on-boot problem has only ever begun suddenly--the first time after two months--but once it happens, it continues to occur on virtually all subsequent power cycles, making the problem intractable.

I\'ve attached my current project file for you to look over. If it\'s OK, I apparently don\'t need you to edit the one above for me.

Good Job! I believe this will fix your problem.

It failed in the usual way on the first power cycle.

Then, as usual, I manually selected the lone project, manually configured the MIDI ports, and verified everything worked normally. Then I power cycled again, and it survived. Later, I power cycled again, and it failed in the usual way. I haven\'t power cycled since. It\'s a fail.

I just got an email that Florian Bome reports there\'s a firmware update, so I guess I\'ll try that. I wonder if it addresses the WiFi latency that I\'ve had out of the box. The email says it\'s a reply to this thread, but for the life of me, I can\'t find it. As we\'ve discussed, this forum software is rather confusing--I\'ve never seen a forum with this kind of layout in years--which is why we were using Elektronauts. I was surprised when, a couple days ago, you wouldn\'t continue using out Elektronauts thread, but I went with it.

I've now installed the 1.4.2 firmware. I suggest that the password reset instructions include a reminder to clear the browser cache, which I had to do to access the interface after logging in with the default password reset by firmware update.

Configuration proceeded as usual, and my configuration file re-loaded successfully after the first power cycle. Then it failed to reload on the second power cycle, requiring me to manually re-do the MIDI ports page, as usual. The next two power cycles kept the configuration loaded. We'll see how bad it gets over the next few days, but continued failure with the 1.4.2 firmware is verified.

Do you have any more troubleshooting suggestions? If you haven't already, can you double-check the configuration file I've uploaded here?

Hi blipson,
too bad that it's still happening, sorry for that! If we only knew the reason. The BomeBox is used by so many users who just plug it in and it works. Every time...
In any case, thank you very much for your patience.

To troubleshoot a bit more, could you please do two things for us?

1) power cycle the BomeBox and copy/paste the Log into this forum.
You find the Log in the BomeBox web config, menu Log.

2) Now when at one time, you power cycle your BomeBox and the MT project file is NOT loaded, please go to the web config and copy/paste the log into the forum here.

Hopefully by comparing the good log with the bad log, we will be able to find out something...

Thanks!
Florian

PS: we've improved and updated this forum, though I agree it still has serious deficiencies! But it is the official Bome support forum. Of course you're free to discuss elsewhere, but we cannot guarantee that we monitor 3rd party forums and participate in discussions there...

The configuration file has survived the last several power cycles. It failed on 2 of the first 3, but now it's been ok for about 5 in a row. That's actually a far better proportion than before I did the firmware update, but maybe that's just luck and not indicative of anything. I'm not going to switch things on and off just to force a fail, but rather use everything in my normal way, which is about 2-4 power cycles per day. At the next fail, I'll post both a fail log and a regular log.

Are you saying that given my Bome Box's degree of functionality, that a defect is a virtual impossibility? In other words, that a small defect would cause much more erroneous behavior than I've been experiencing? Otherwise, no matter how many good units go out the door, there's bound to be one with a defect. I wouldn't jump easily to that conclusion, but the bad WiFi behavior I've had since day one is suspicious. If you could verify at least one case of a Bome Box's Wifi working without latency with BMT on a Mac that has MacOS Catalina, and not some older version of MacOS, that would be very helpful.

As long as our replies always get appended to this thread in chronological order, this forum's fine. Earlier nesting or some other unexpected order made things quite confusing to follow. It appears if I always use the "Post your Answer" box at the bottom and avoid a direct response via "Add comment," it should be OK. Worse, the "Add comment" button spins forever, so in the past I'd also do an identical "Post your Answer," and then I'd find them both posted. I expect that's a browser issue, but confusing results whatever the cause. If this were a multi-person conversation, nested commentary might be necessary, but since we're down to sequentially dealing with this one problem, I expect it will be ok. File attachment and email notification both work, which is important.

trust me, all problems with this forum are due to the forum software. We're looking into alternatives, but secretly hope that before we switch to yet another forum software, there will be an update which fixes all the issues we have reported to the manufacturer. It's a payed software, too... Response coming in the next Post Your Answer block :)

The new firmware does have a few changes which could improve your situation. But probably not enough...

Or.... a defect. I cannot judge the probability of a defect. Fact is, we have very very few real defects, just a couple of units per year. And we've never had a problem with WiFi or with bad memory. But there are certainly imaginable hardware defects which could lead to your symptoms. I've just run a stress test from a Windows computer to a BomeBox via Ethernet, from where it was connected via the BomeBox WiFi to a Mac running Catalina. The Mac had MIDI Translator Pro running, which looped back all data without any noticeable latency and with very high throughput -- as expected.

If you would like to give it a chance, we can replace your BomeBox. We will send out the replacement box on receipt of your tracking code. Please contact us directly to arrange the details. Note that some world areas are problematic for shipments, currently...

I'll also try again to reproduce your issue.
My apologies again for your problems.

I recommend the same forum software used at elektronauts.com. I've been on uncountable forums over the years, and that software--which I've seen in a couple of places--is the most modern, with easy and fine-grained tracking, good online and offline notification, thread-diagramming for easy reading and nested commentary, file attachment, automated inline links for places like SoundCloud and YouTube, etc. That's why I asked Steve to communicate with me there, which we did a few months ago.

Thanks for verifying Catalina. I was very suspicious, as other things have problems under Catalina that work fine under previous versions of MacOS. I've personally experienced this, and it's also documented online.

I suggest this: I purchase a second Bome Box, then later return one of them for refund. If it fails the same way, we conclude the problem is on my end somewhere. But I still can use it because I have one reliable workaround: never power cycle the Bome Box. If I leave it powered up 100% of the time (like a regular router), then I only have to manually re-load on rare occasions, which would be tolerable. Please tell me, though: is the Bome Box robust enough to be left powered on 24/7 over long periods of time, or do you expect that to lead to a premature failure of the device?

In the meantime, I would still like to continue to troubleshoot this situation. I just switched the thing on for the first time today, and it has again loaded without a problem. That's about 8 out of 10, and the last 6 in a row, which is wonderful, but who knows what it means. In any case, I'd really like to see if another Bome Box displays the WiFi latency issue or not because that problem has never taken a break.

I've used the contact form to send you a message, as I do have concerns about shipping that I don't want to publish on the forum.

Hi Blipson, thanks for the reply. We continue via email with the details of a replacement unit.

In the software, we did have to fix a few things to get it to work well on Catalina -- especially the installer.

There is not problem at all leaving your BomeBox on 24/7. We have an array of BomeBoxes here, executing long term reliability tests 24/7 for years... A BomeBox typically uses less than 150mA at 5V, which is below the standby power consumption of many home devices, so there is very little heat dissemination. Just make sure that your USB power supply is also reliable and trustworthy enough for 24/7 usage.

OK, I'll keep in mind 24/7 operation as a workaround, but I'm still waiting for another fail so that I can post logs here, as requested.

On both my Catalina laptops, everything about BMT works fine, there's only that latency issue.

 

this is exactly the forum software we would like most (discourse). We’re evaluating it.

It just keeps working after about 20 power cycles since the last time I posted. If it hadn\'t had those two fails early on, I could start concluding that the new firmware and my new configuration somehow fixed the problem. In any case, it would be dumb to troubleshoot something that\'s currently working unless you have some specific ideas or updates. And with the potential workaround of leaving it on 24/7 to avoid power cycling entirely--and Florian says it\'s feasible to leave the Bome Box powered on for extended periods--I\'ll just keep using it as normal and post immediately the next time it fails.

The WiFi latency is a shame, though. I think the only way to settle that issue would be with a second, know-working Bome Box that I\'d install at the same location so that I could A/B.

I'm now trying the Bome Box's ethernet port to my MacBook Pro 16 using a USB-C to ethernet adapter. The software package is the drumming software BFD 3 from FXpansion. There's still a latency that makes it unplayable, but I think the latency is 100% consistent at about 100-120ms. Can you check to see that I've configured the patch's MIDI ports  correctly? It's the patch named "BFD H." I left theMIDI input port the same as for the other patches, and I changed the MIDI ouput port to "IAC Driver Bus 1."

I now seem to have fixed the latency problem when using the ethernet connection. The drum software BFD needed to have its MIDI configuration refreshed. I guess I don't need to select both "IAC Driver Bus 1" and "ThisIsTheCorrectPortPerSteve" so that it will work when a configuration file is loaded and when I don't have one loaded and I'm using BMT.

Also, using the internet connection makes my computer lose internet access even though its WiFi remains connected. Do you know if there's a way to direct all MIDI traffic to the Bome Network and, at the same time, all other traffic to the WiFi network?

Hi, if you put WiFi and Internet on the same network you will get a bouncing BomeBox. It will consistently try to figure out which network connection to use and bounce back and forth between them or simply periodically drop one of the two connections (as you are seeing).  The Bome Network software identifies the BomeBox by its name and network so if there are two devices with the same name (one on WiFi and one on ethernet), then this will wreak havoc.  It is best to keep each network separate or at least make sure the the BomeBox is only accessible via one media or the other. When connective via ethernet, I typically turn of the WiFi side (unless I have it on a completely different network).

 

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

OK, I understand. So far on my computer, it just stays on the Bome Network consistently and locks out the other, but I guess I was lucky.

So now that I verify no latency when using BMT with ethernet, does that shed any new light on why I have such pronounced latency when using BMT with WiFi?

You might look into your WiFI country settings and make sure they are correct. Different countries have different WiFi standards that may introduce latency.