RME Totalmix

Hi All,

I am trying, as many before me, to control RME's Totalmix (digital mixer/DSP) with a MIDI controller (in my case the Behringer X-Touch Compact). I've been scouring the RME forums, manuals, and other sources to find out how to customize things and get all the functionality I need, but am still searching. I'll note, that I am also new to MIDI control. From what I can tell, there is no way to do it natively, which is why I've found my way here to Bome forums.

My goal is to customize some MIDI knobs/buttons to send MIDI CC notes to Totalmix to activate things like Snapshot #1-8, Mute Groups, etc, while also retaining all the basic mixing functionality that I'm only able to get right now when my X-Touch is in MC (Mackie Control) mode.

Has anyone successfully implemented such a setup? If so I'd love to hear some specifics.

Hi,

I haven't done this with RME TotalMix specifically but I created a template that will allow you to switch between Mackie Mode and Layer Mode with double tap of the record button of the X-Touch compact.  This allows for 2 virtual controllers. A Mackie Mode controller and a CC mode controller.  I send all Mackie commands out BMT  1 and CC commands out BMT 2.  The ports are selected via aliases "Mackie Application" and "Non-Mackie Application". 

While in the other mode, I continue to monitor input from the DAW so that things get updated when coming back.  For instance If I move a fader in non-Mackie Mode but the DAW sends data to a Mackie Fader, MT Pro holds that data and will forward it to the X-touch compact once it goes back into Mackie Mode.

 

I spent many personal hours on this so this would be a MT project file I would sell for your use only and not free.  Reach out to me via email if interested.

The techniques I use, however are available in various posts in this forum. Just the packaged solution would be for sale. If you want a specific function, I can provide an example of just that function.

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Thanks for the quick response, Steve! That sounds like a very interesting template that you have made. I would like to learn how to implement something like this myself, but I will reach out again if I am unable to make progress.

Since you are clearly familiar with the inner workings of both midi control generally and the x-touch compact specifically, I do have another question. Do you think it's possible to program the x-touch in Standard mode (using the X-TOUCH Editor software) such that it opperates in a hybrid state? For example, manually configure the faders and mute buttons to send/recieve MCU equivalent messages while opening up the possiblity to customize other buttons to send a "note-on" type message. For me, I think my needs are fairly simple since I am only needing to talk to one application (Totalmix), but I would also like to have all functions readily available without the need to mode switch, thought that seems like a great shortcut you made (double tap Rec).

Thank you again so much for your help, I realy appreaciate it! I am not using this comercially. I do live performace and projection (mostly 16mm film stuff) and am currently diving into the world of digital live sound and mixing.

Yes, entirely possible. Buttons you probably would not to do much at all but just line them up with what Mackie MCU sends and pass through MT Pro untouched. V-POTS and faders would be set up as translators to and from MCU.

CC -> VPOT - to application

VPOT -> CC - to X-touch

CC-> Fader - to applicatnoi

Fader -> CC - to X-touch

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

OK, that's encouraging!

Just to clarify, in your opinion, MT Pro would still be necessary? I was actually wondering if it might even be possible to program the x-touch (via X-TOUCH Editor) to send the correct messages so as to not even need to translate them.

Only for buttons and LED's. You would still need MT Pro for V-Pots and fader translation if your application uses Macke MCU mode.

OK, good to know. That sets me on a path. Many thanks!

I've made some progress in the last 24 hours translating midi CC messages (buttons) to MCU messages that Totalmix understands as well as routing feedback to my x-touch so that the button LEDs reflect current mute states etc. While this is a small step, its still exciting! All this has been accomplished with MIDI Messages of the "note on" and "note off" variety. Now I'm on to v-pots and faders, and I'm a bit lost!

I noticed that the encoder PUSH button for 1-16 can be set to CC, Note, Pitch Bend, Program Change, and MMC (5 different modes), while the TURN can only be set to CC, Pitch Bend, and Program Chfange (3 different modes). Fader 1-8 can be any of the 5 different types. Also, since there are 19 types of MIDI Message in the MT Pro I/O menu, just knowing what mode to use would help save me a lot of time I think.

For starters I though I would capture the midi output of the x-touch in MC mode to see what it was doing. I decided to start by looking at the navigation contols for moving 1 track and 8 tracks left and right and moving up down from bank to bank:

8 trks L (x-touch rotary encoder, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 2E 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 2E 00   8 trks R (x-touch rotary encoder, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 2F 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 2F 00   1 trk L (x-touch rotary encoder, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 30 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 30 00   1 trk R (x-touch rotary encoder, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 31 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 31 00   Arrow 1 Trk R (x-touch button, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 5C 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 5C 00   Arrow 1 Trk L (x-touch button, MC mode) 1: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 5B 7F 2: MIDI IN [X-TOUCH COMPACT]: 90 5B 00

By the way, I am using this document as a reference for MCU commands, though I don't know how accurate or up-to-date it is: http://www.jjlee.com/qlab/Mackie%20Control%20MIDI%20Map.pdf 

Is there a better resource for the MCU standard available somewhere?

That's all for now. Happy Halloween.

 

Yes, here is the one I use. Most of what you would need would start at page 109.

 

https://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/151261_manual.pdf

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Steve, thank you for the Logic Control manual. Between that, the MT Pro manual, and educating myself more about hexadecimal I've made some more progress.

However, I think I'm again in need of some hints!

It seems that a Fader transmits an absolute hex value describing its position, while a V-POT transmits a relative value describing how many "ticks" and in which direction it has been turned since it was at rest. How to calculate this relative value (comparison) has me stuck. I've been trying to think of a way to use either a global or local variable, and maybe a timer too, but I'm really not sure. Let me know if you can think of a way.

The second issue I have is with fader scale. The x-touch scale goes up to +10, while Totlmix only goes up to +6. When I set the level to 0.0dB using the UI (Totalmix) the x-touch fader jumps up above 0.0 close to +5. Other values have similar offsets. Is there a way to scale this correctly?

Thanks as always!

 

 

Hi,

This video  tutorial gives you basics on how to translate relative to absolute although Mackie V-Pots use different relative values that most other applications but the concept is the same.

https://youtu.be/TS24LR1TdGY

 

This video tutorial  shows you how to address absolute values with different scales.

https://youtu.be/g4AoEyq3qGw

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Hi Steve, thank you for these links. Now I'm just having problems with feedback/interference on the V-POTS. I'd like to be able to trust the LED ring as well as the software pan "knobs" but when I enable my MT translator for sending LED feedback to the x-touch it causes problems. Is there a way around this? I've tried using delay, which kinda works but doesn't allow for referring to the LED ring in real-time. Thanks!

 

 

Hi,

Instead of using local feedback from MT Pro, I would recommend you instead, convert the feedback that RME TotalMix sends. I suspect that you are doing this already and the local feedback from MT Pro is interfering with TotalMix feedback.

Of course, if you are not connected to TotalMix, then you would need local feedback so you could program a button to turn off and on the feedback preset depending on whether you are connected to TotalMix or not.

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

Sorry, would you mind clarifying what you mean by local feedback and how to achieve it/disable it? Currently, I have the I/O of each translator set to a specific port, and "swallow" is checked. Is the local feedback you are referring to internal to the X-touch or coming from BOME virtual output? My LED ring feedback translator takes the 11 possible RME Totalmix pan messages (e.g. B0 30 01 thru B0 30 0B) and converts them to the messages that correlate to illuminate 11 out of the 13 possible LEDs in the X-Touch LED ring. It works really well when only controlling Totalmix with my mouse, but creates problems when I use the controller. when I turn it off, the controller works fine.

Local feedback would be anything that Bome sends back to your X-touch.  Remote feedback would be anything coming from RME total Mix.

If it works fine when using the mouse, but not when using the controller, it is possible one of your translators from you X-touch encoder to TotalMix is incorrect.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

I am attaching the project in case you have a moment to peak at it. When the LED feedback is dissabled, the v-pots adjust PAN reasonably well, the only issue is that they have to be calibrated all the time and get out of sync really easily. When LED feedback is enabled, there is so much interference when using the V-POT that PAN can only be adjusted through Totalmix mouse movements.

In MC mode there are no issues with calibrating the PAN sweep or with LED feedback. I am hoping that this is an indication that there is a way to program my way around the issue.

Note: I have configured the V-pot as CC 0-65. When I program the V-pot as CC 0-1 it offeres the most reliable paning (i.e. no need to recalibrate the center point), but it makes the LED ring useless (only LED 1 and 13 are available in that config, while CC 0-65 give good enough resolution to taget each LED on the ring).

Please let me know if you have any advice! I feel like I am so close to having all the functionality I need. MAny thanks!

FYI, the project only includeds my V-POT translators and is based on an example you posted in another thread that covers converting abosolute controlls to relative output.

Could you tell me how you have this setup?

 

Are you using EasyControl9 to send absolute values and translate them to Mackie VPOT output to RME or are us using X-Touch MINI in CC mode?

You need to pay attention to all inputs and outputs. Anything you don't have directed from a given input to a given output will be received from and go to all project default ports.

So for instance translator 0 from any port 90 00 7F will reset ga and gc. You should probably state which input port. Resetting the value of ga (which is what you are calculating timer moves) periodically during your project will probably cause havoc.

Please look at this tutorial.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

 

Hi, thanks for looking. I see that I forgot to update my project I/O defaults as well as define specific I/O ports for translator 0. I have updated both now but it didn't change the behavior. I am using my X-Touch Compact, not a EasyControl which I think was in the project file that this example origanlly came from. I'll look at this link you've sent.

OK, if you are using your X-touch Compact in Layer mode, then there may be other MIDI messages coming back from RME TotalMix that may be causing some issues.  Mackie MCU is a pretty involved Protocol. I would probably need to look at the log to see what is happening that might be messing things up.

Hi,

Another thought.

The X-touch Compact has 3 ways to control the LED rings

1) Local (as you move the knob)

2) Remote 1 (same CC and channel from the host)

3) Remote 2 (same CC and but on the global channel from the host)

I suggest you use remote 2 mode for remote control. I don\'t think you can override local control so you will always need to ensure the host (or MT Pro) is sending remote feedback.

Also, I noticed that the Encoders have 3 relative modes in addition to absolute mode for Layer A and B.

Relative 1 - 01/7F - With increment

Relative 2 - 3f/41 - With increment

Relative 3 - 01/41 - (V-Pot Mode) with increment

By increment I mean for relative 1 you might get 01, 02, 03 for positive and 7F,7E,7D for negative movements.

I would recomment you

1) Put the encoders into relative 3 mode

2) Use remote feedback 2 method for updating the encoders.

The encoder display type can be changed by sending on the Global channel value 0-4 with the same encoder number.

0-Single, 1=Pan, 2=Fan,3=Spread,4=Trim

If you add 16 (decimal) to the encoder number you can change the display, again using the Global channel

0=Off, 1-13 How many LED\'s on (solid), 14-26, how many LED\'s on (blink), 27 all LED\'s on, 28 all LEDs blinking.

The global channel can be set with the Behringer X-touch editor. Then you can use MT Pro to translate from how RME sends back information to customize what type and value your LED rings will display.

This information was all in the X-Touch Compact Quick Start Guide, which I had to find outside of Behringer as apparently, they no longer have it published on their site.

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz

 

Wow, this is amazing, I wondered what the "global" channel might be capable of and had no idea. Where do you see the RX value for changing the encoder mode? I see the CC # and Values for "LED Ring Behavior Change" and "LED Ring Remote Control" but not the different relative encoder modes that you mention. I downloaded the whole quick start guide thinking it might have just been on a different page but didn't find it. Thank you so much!!

Top 2 entries on the page snapshot.  CC 127 to change to Layer or MC mode. PC to change between Layer A and B while in CC mode.

 

Hmm, the top 2 entries seem to change the whole control surface from CC layer A, B, and MC modes. Is this what you are refering to when you say "Relative 3 - 01/41 - (V-Pot Mode) with increment"?

Oh, I misunderstood. There is no documentation in the different relative modes of this controller. I found this by trial and error setting different modes in the X-touch editor and looking at the results.  Behringer makes pretty good controllers, but their documentation is often lacking.  I actually prefer the X-touch MINI since it has a much more friendly format.  I have a program that allows me to put the V-POTs in Fader mode (kind of like Mackie FLIP).

I would much rather have 2-3 -Touch MINI's on my desktop than the big bulky X-touch Compact (not so compact). X-touch MINIs also do not require external power.

 

Steve

 

haha, very true--the "Compact" is taking up a lot of space on my table and power strip rn! I will consider the mini again. I am using my RME interface as a digital mixer for live mixing so the multiple motorized faders are a big draw. The motorized faders seem less likely to produce an unintended jump in volume on a digital mixer channel, but I don't, maybe motorized faders aren't even necessary for my needes? This is, as you can probably tell, my first foray into the world of MIDI controllers and I am very open to any suggestions as I am not yet dug into any one system/brand/approach. I have to say that my experience with Bome thus far has been outstanding and I feel encouraged to check out the Bome Box next. I really can't emphasis enough how valuable your help has been!

Yes motorized faders are nice but they come at a price.  Most of my controllers, either the DAW handles "takeup" or I do it inside MT Pro.  When done in MT Pro, you just keep the last value sent by the DAW in a global variable and you disable your actual fader until it crosses the last known value.

As I said, I like the Behringer X-Touch MINI for push encoders. For faders with lots of buttons I use the AkaiPro APC MINI.  I have lots of other choices two but I tend to stick with a combination of these or if I need lots of encoders, I go with either the FaderFox EC4 or the DJ Tech Tools MIDI Fighter Twister.

Both the APC Mini and X-touch MINI are in the under $100 dollar range though.

I use the APC MINI to remotely control VoiceMeeter on my PC (I wrote a script that interfaces to the Voicemeeter GUI).

The FaderFox EC4  is my controller of choice for helping people that have stuff that I don't as it can be programmed to look like just about anything I want. It costs more though.

 

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Customer Care

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Also available for paid consulting services: bome@sniz.biz