does anyone have a tranlator file for Avid Pre protocol to Aphex 1788a protocol? - Bome Forums Archive 2005

brandonx1

2016-04-21 03:44:18

Seems like an easy enough thing to do. Has anyone done it or done anything similar? Specifically I want to control my 1788a mic pre from pro tools and pro tools controllers like an Icon.

ibanman555

2016-04-21 16:07:43

Interesting prospect. I would imagine it would be a simple task as well, but documents for the 1788a and 1788a-r don't provide any details about what messages are sent or received. You could connect midi out of the 1788a into Midi Translator and see if there are messages sent from the 1788a. Make an adjustment to a mic pre level and see if messages are sent. This would hopefully give you an idea of what the 1788a would want to see from a midi standpoint to control the same function.

brandonx1

2016-04-21 17:39:03

I think this is the midi commands list

: Midi commands list; Untitled.jpg (504.11 KiB) Viewed 11275 times

ibanman555

2016-04-21 17:51:50

Oh!! Well, there you go! So you would use BMT to receive a midi command from your controller (say, a button push for mute) and output 07 xx 01 to turn it on. It doesn't show what the midi byte is for the mic channel is (where I put xx) but once we figure that out, you're golden!

Is there more info with where you got this information? I didn't see this anywhere...

brandonx1

2016-04-21 18:02:44

Yes here is the manual with all the midi commands.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/ZWJV ... NVhOTzhUQw

ibanman555

2016-04-21 18:08:44

Just found the midi manual for this right before you replied. Lots of useful data here!! So, your project is totally doable. At this point, you'll just need to discover the midi messages that are sent from your controllers knobs and buttons (icon?), or rather, which knobs and buttons you will want to use to control the parameters of your 1788a. Once you document those, then we can help you build a preset to receive and transmit the proper midi messages to control it.

brandonx1

2016-04-21 18:44:56

Great. Here are the avid pre midi instruction sets. Great support here!

https://www.yousendit.com/download/ZWJV ... cWYwZXNUQw

ibanman555

2016-04-21 18:53:37

Ok cool! So just explain in detail again what it is you want to accomplish. You have the Aphex 1788a....what functions of this do you want to control. You have the Avid Pre.... What functions of this do you want to control? And, what is the controller that will be sending the midi messages to each?

It looks as you have 2 preamps. So I'm a little confused what is the master controller and which (if not both) pre amp you're wanting to remote control. Thanks!

brandonx1

2016-04-21 19:52:43

I only have an aphex 1788a. I want to control the 1788 with Pro tools. I want pro tools to think the 1788a is an avid pre

ibanman555

2016-04-21 20:12:36

brandonx1 wrote:I only have an aphex 1788a. I want to control the 1788 with Pro tools. I want pro tools to think the 1788a is an avid pre

OK, yes I understand that. I guess what I'm saying is that you need some external controller (you mentioned the Icon) to actually control the parameters on the 1788a. There aren't options within pro tools to do that. For example, we can configure an external controller to mute Channel 1 in Pro Tools, or mute Channel 1 on the 1788a, or even both at the same time, but I would think you would want separate buttons for each.

There are a few midi controlled parameters on the 1788a (I.e.- input gain {requires a knob}, Phantom Power, polarity reverse, etc), so how would we control these from pro tools itself!? There aren't any "spare" buttons or knobs in the mix window for these.... This is where the External controller is needed.

brandonx1

2016-04-21 20:28:38

Avid s6 is the controller I use. Actually, pro tools has a section of its mixer for controlling the avid pre. What I need is a avid pre protocol to 1788 midi translator. I think we are on the same page, I just want to be clear.

I would declare a pre in pro tools and the pre midi commands from pro tools would control the 1788. Bi directional communication would be nice so I can see what is happening on the 1788 from pro tools.
Thank you so much

ibanman555

2016-04-21 20:44:01

Ok I see... What version of Pro Tools are you using? I assume this is HD, I've never used it, only Native, so this is where I may be lacking knowledge regarding functionality with the Pre.

I will read up on the Avid Pre manual to see if I can figure out what messages Pro Tools sends to the Pre, is if it were actually connected. On that note, can you access the section you are referring to that would be used with the Pre in Pro Tools? If so, we can use BMT to intercept those messages, as we may need them to build the translators. Hopefully the messages in the documentation already match.

Can you post a screen shot of the section that controls the Pre within Pro Tools? Just to better my understanding. If all we need to do is take Pre messages and translate to 1788a messages without any handshaking between devices, then you are in good shape. Thanks for taking the time to lay out details!

brandonx1

2016-04-21 21:38:58

Pro Tools 12.5 HD.
I think the midi protocol is a lot like HUI. see screen shots.

Attachments

: Untitled.jpg (93.75 KiB) Viewed 11221 times

: Untitled 02.jpg (34.09 KiB) Viewed 11221 times

brandonx1

2016-04-21 21:40:03

In the first pic, if there is a mic pre selected, you get gain phase pad ect. in the blank window.

ibanman555

2016-04-21 21:55:50

Here is a screen shot of my Pro Tools HD computer, I've never tried to set this up before, but after some trial and error I got the Mic Pre section to show up on a channel. Unfortunately, I cannot click on any of the buttons or slide the fader in that open Mic Pre section. Any idea why that would be?

However, there is a handshake (ping) between Pro Tools and the "Pre"... I was able to figure that out, and I am not getting the error message, also attached below. Once I can confirm the messages Pro Tools sends out to the Pre, that is, confirm that they match the midi messages shown in the manual for the Pre, we can build a BMT file. Just need to figure out why I can't control Mic Pre parameters in Pro Tools right now....

Attachments

: preerror.JPG (21.18 KiB) Viewed 11219 times

: micpre2.JPG (15.67 KiB) Viewed 11219 times

: MICPRE.JPG (25.46 KiB) Viewed 11219 times

ibanman555

2016-04-21 22:22:21

Have a read on part 1 and 2. Part 2 says:

"Third Party Mic Preamp Support
As I mentioned earlier in the article, some third party manufacturers have produced their own mic preamps which are compatible with the Avid PRE protocol, allowing them to be controlled in the same manner from Pro Tools. These include:

RME Micstasy
Millennia Media HV-3R
Grace Design M802
Prodigy Engineering Anima
Aphex 1788A and 188
Summit Audio MPE-200

Whichever option you choose, it’s certainly convenient to be able to control mic preamps from Pro Tools and it can be especially handy during big recording sessions."

Looks like the 1788A is part of this. So, you don't need a translator. Just 2 midi cables back and forth to your interface, and set up Pro Tools as required.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... ols-part-1

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... ols-part-2

brandonx1

2016-04-21 22:23:35

Does pro tools need to get the midi message back to move a fader or button? I don't know, just a guess here. Thanks for all the help with this.

ibanman555

2016-04-21 22:33:12

You will connect midi cables from:

1788A Midi Out > Pro Tools Interface Midi In

and

Pro Tools Interface Midi Out > 1788A Midi In

Set up the Pre in Pro Tools as described in the links in my last post and all the functions should translate from Pro Tools to the 1788A, and vice versa without a problem, granted you have Midi I/O on your interface.

brandonx1

2016-04-21 22:43:30

I don't think k that's the case but I will try it. Aphex makes a box to translate their protocol to avid protocol. It's called 5200. I really want to avoid having another box.

ibanman555

2016-04-21 22:51:48

brandonx1 wrote:I don't think that's the case but I will try it. Aphex makes a box to translate their protocol to avid protocol. It's called 5200. I really want to avoid having another box.

Ok, since it was mentioned in the article that it supports that protocol, I assume that it works. If not, come back, I'd be glad to help you make a translator. It should be very simple.

brandonx1

2016-04-21 23:09:30

Thabks so much for all your help!!!!

ibanman555

2016-04-22 05:14:26

After a few hours away, the buttons in Pro Tools started to work...

Here is a breakdown of the messages that are sent from the Mic
Pre section of Pro Tools, per channel. I only have 2 working
input channels on this interface but I can see what is happening,
and can build on that for the other 6 channels. These messages
below are all pretty much the same, except the second byte of
each message is what changes depending on the channel. For example:

Code: Select all

Pad: 
Ch1 - B0 02 7F (ON)
Ch2 - B0 12 7F (ON)
Ch3 - B0 22 7F (ON)
Ch4 - B0 32 7F (ON)
Ch5 - B0 42 7F (ON)
Ch6 - B0 52 7F (ON)
Ch7 - B0 62 7F (ON)
Ch8 - B0 72 7F (ON)

This follows suit for all messages, depending on the channel.

Code: Select all

Pro Tools: Ch 1			Ch 2


Handshake
(Ping): A0 00 00 
	  B0 0A 00

Response:  A0 00 7F
	        B0 0A 7F		

Mic:       B0 01 00		Mic:       B0 11 00
Line:      B0 01 01		Line:      B0 11 01
DI:        B0 01 02		DI:        B0 11 02


Phase:     B0 05 7F (ON)	Phase:     B0 15 7F (ON)
	      B0 05 00 (OFF)		      B0 15 00 (OFF)

Hi Pass:   B0 06 7F (ON)	Hi Pass:   B0 16 7F (ON)
	      B0 06 00 (OFF)	              B0 16 00 (OFF)

Pad:	   B0 02 7F (ON)	Pad:	   B0 12 7F (ON)
	   BO 02 00 (OFF)	 	   BO 12 00 (OFF)

Ins:       B0 03 7F (ON)	Ins:       B0 13 7F (ON)
	    B0 03 00 (OFF) 	    B0 13 00 (OFF)

48V:       B0 04 7F (ON)	48V:       B0 14 7F (ON)
	     B0 04 00 (OFF)		     B0 14 00 (OFF)

*GAIN 				*GAIN 
*FADER:     B0 09 00 		*FADER:     B0 19 00
	         thru 	 		                 thru
	         B0 09 17 (24 steps)             B0 19 17 (24 steps)
		
         *1799a handles 39 steps*

There is a handshake in that Pro Tools sends out 2 midi messages
every 12 seconds, and is looking for a response, otherwise an error
message will appear. I assign the outgoing midi from Pro Tools to a
Virtual Port in BMT, and send it back over the same port, with a delay.

Code: Select all

Project: 
_____________________________________________________________
[x] 
Preset 0: Ping

Translator 0.0: 
Ping HUI 1
Options: swallow
Incoming: MIDI A0 00 00, on port Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual In
Outgoing: MIDI A0 00 7F, to port Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual Out, delay:400 millisec

Translator 0.1: Ping HUI 1
Options: swallow
Incoming: MIDI B0 0A 00, on port Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual In
Outgoing: MIDI B0 0A 7F, to port Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual Out, delay:400 millisec

The 1788A looks as though it wants to receive full sysex messages for each function that it is
capable to having with the Mic Pre section of Pro Tools. By looking we only have these functions...

*Input Gain
Phantom Power
Low Cut Filter
Polarity Reverse
Pad

The "Insert Enable" button in Pro Tools can be used for some other useful function of the 1788A,
that would be your choice though. Here is what a translator for "Pad" would look like, and would
service all channels 1-8:

Code: Select all

Preset 1: Pad

[x] 
Translator 1.0: Pad On
Incoming: MIDI B0 pp 7F, on port Bome MIDI Translator 1 Virtual In
Rules: if pp==0x02 then qq=0x00
if pp==0x12 then qq=0x01
if pp==0x22 then qq=0x02
if pp==0x32 then qq=0x03
if pp==0x42 then qq=0x04
if pp==0x52 then qq=0x05
if pp==0x62 then qq=0x06
if pp==0x72 then qq=0x07
Outgoing: MIDI F0 00 00 38 00 00 00 08 qq 01 F7

The outgoing port will need to be assigned to wherever your 1788A midi In is connected to. There is a possibility also that you may not need to send a full sysex message to the 1788A, and just the midi message itself. In the above case, you could only send "08 qq 01" out of that entire message. Worth a try, could save alot of time.

brandonx1

2016-04-22 22:35:06

Thanks for all the help here. i'm trying to wrap my head around all this but I'm very new to your program. I do think I'll need this program to remote my pre amp. The code sections you posted, do I need to past that into the rules section?

ibanman555

2016-04-22 23:03:46

brandonx1 wrote:Thanks for all the help here. i'm trying to wrap my head around all this but I'm very new to your program. I do think I'll need this program to remote my pre amp. The code sections you posted, do I need to past that into the rules section?

You were correct, you will need this to remote control the 1788A. The Aphex 5200 does the same trick, but.... you know.

The code I posted (the translators) contain all the information you need to input into your own file. The rules section, yes, you will copy and paste into that translator you make for it. You just need to make sure the Midi routing, both physical and virtual is correct.

brandonx1

2016-04-22 23:19:01

great. I'm slowly figuring it out. Thanks