MT on Xone:1D - different commands on similar knobs?

Hi!

I'm totally new on using the MT, but I think this tool has a great potential. You just have to lern the how-to's first

OK, I own an Xone:1D and want to control general functions in Torq with it.
Can I do something with the MT to get different functions controlled by using the same knobs, sliders, faders, ... ?
I would like to get a configuration for each deck in Torq, so I can switch efx and other things always with the same elements of the 1D?
My first thougt was to create a different preset for each deck and there map the controls. But I don't know how I can handle it. I've even tried to translate the MIDIs into keystrokes and map them on the functions in Torq, but if I do so nothing happens! I tried combinations like ALT+1, CTRL+W and also single letters, but none of them take any effect in Torq. In other threads I read about the problem, that some applications just accept the direct input of keystrokes by using the keyboard. Perhaps Torq is one of these apps!?

Is there any other solution available to get my intentions to work?

To sum it up:
- use Torq and the Xone:1D!
- installed MT and Yoke
- set the Xone:1D as input and Yoke1 as output in MT; in Torq set Yoke1 as input
- created a general preset (always on) an one for each deck
- can switch between the presets with the coontroller

But I don't know how to do it? The MIDI-Thru in MT seems to work, because I can map all controls directly without having added a translation for the MIDI-commands I've used mapping.

I must say that I'm not very keen on using MIDI. And so, I don't know where to start my troubleshooting

Hi there - welcome to the forum.

I've got a couple questions for you to start;

You've been *completely* unsuccessful in mapping anything to Torq through MT (not counting MIDI Thru messages)? None of your translators work at all?

You're wanting to create a MT template that allows you to use the same physical controls on your Xone to output multiple MIDI commands? Basically what you're looking for is a 'shift' button?

I don't know anything about Torq, but I have heard of programs that are picky about keystrokes like that.

If you would, please email or upload your current MT template. I'd like to take a look at it.

Hey!
Completely unsuccessful is said too much! I've translated the up/down and left/right function from the 1D's jog dial into arrow up/down and F1/F2 keystrokes and it works fine! Before that I was also able o translate the jog dial rotation into the the arrow up/down keystrokes, this did work pretty fine, too.

I've just tried again to map the functions in Torq with MIDI-commands and these are the results:
In my three presets I added each a different button with the same input and output MIDI-command and I mapped them to three different functions in Torq. My thougths are, that the button in the "always active" preset should work permanently, while the other two should only work when their preset is active. But all 3 buttons work all the time, independent of the chosen preset.
And to complete my results, I can also map any element of the 1D, for which are no translations added -> this is what I meant with "MIDI-Thru" (am I right?).

I will send you my current template right after I've finnished this post. Perhaps you can tell me what I do wrong! Of course I hope so.

Thanks for trying to help me, I'm pretty glad about that!

Floh,

Another question; which MT are you using? Classic, Pro or Author and which version?

It's good to hear that you have the jog wheels working through Bomes. This verifies that at least you have the Xone->MT connection correct. Have you been able to actually map MIDI controls in Torq?

If you would, please try to send me your template again. I received a file, but it didn't have any data in it. You should be able to just do a File/Save As... and send me the resulting .bmtp file.

You are correct about your understanding of MIDI Thru. Basically, if you have MIDI Thru turned off, Torq would only see MIDI data that is handled directly by MT.

I was over on the Torq forum checking things out, and I realized what you're doing with the F1/F2 keystroke mappings. Very nice...

I'm confident we can get this working for you. I'll be watching my email for your template.

Also, I would like you to make sure that the presets you are talking about are indeed disabled. To make sure, check out the check boxes next to each of the presets names. If they're checked, they are enabled and all the translators contained within will be processed...

I sent you another email, this time including the files working to achieve

Sorry, I forgot to say that I'm using MT classic, the latest version (just downloaded it yesterday from the homepage)!

Before I started to use MT, the Xone worked pretty fine on Torq. Now, with MT, the Xone also works, but not the way I'd like it to do.
As I said, i can map MIDI-signals only in "Thru", with not taking any effect what I've added in MT for the knobs to do. They just ignore it.

I have set my presets just the same way as in your screenshot. The alway-active is active permanently, and I can switch between the both other presets with a button on my Xone. When I do so, the checkboxes change their status, so my switch seems to work. There shouldn't be the problem.

But I can't get the Xone paying attention to my different translations in these presets. And I also think, the Xone ignores all the settings I've done in MT concerning MIDI-signals. By contrast, keystroke-translations DO work - as I see with the arrow commands on the jog wheel.

I think, I have done something completely wrong in the beginning of creating my template, so that it just cannot work. Maybe, you'll see it already on your first look at my template files!?

Okay, I had a chance to check out your template, and I think I know what you're trying to do - and I may know what the problem is.

You're doing the right thing using your 'switch presets' button, but the translators in the presets have two problems.

1. They are configured to use different messages from the Xone, not the same ones

2. They have identical input and output MIDI messages, meaning basically that they won't do anything. Even worse, this may mean that actually will *prevent* the messages from going through.

What you'll need to do is figure out exactly which message is being output by the Xone control and use it as the Incoming Trigger event for translators in both presets. The easiest way to do this would be to use the 'capture MIDI' function when defining your incoming MIDI message.

From another post;

To capture MIDI;

* Right click on new translator and select 'Edit' (or Ctrl+E)
* Click on the 'Incoming' tab (or F6)
* Click the 'Capture MIDI' checkbox
* Press the control you wish to map and hold
* Uncheck the 'Capture MIDI' checkbox

For the sake of this example, we'll assume that you are wanting to map a button on your Xone that outputs Note On/Off messages at C2, and you want to 'switch' that control periodically... You'll want to specify different output MIDI values for the same input values in your secondary preset.

Based on your template, you should change your second preset to look like this:


So the moral of the story is: Keep the same Incoming Trigger, but make your Outgoing Actions different. This will turn your one control into two.

Also, I noticed in your 'always active' preset you have a couple of translators that have identical MIDI statements for incoming and outgoing. Basically this is redundant as long as you have MIDI Thru enabled.



If you are still having some problems with this, I would encourage you to check out the MT Manual (here). Please let me know if you need any more help, I'd be happy to help you through this further if required.

Joe

Hi Joe!

I have forgotten to say that the translations in the template I sent you were only made for testing. They aren't similar with the ones I've tried to get my intentions work. It was just to demonstrate...

OK, I will soon try the following things:
I will delete the translations in my "always active"-preset, that have the same in- and output (as I said, they were only for demonstration and testing).
Next I'm going to configure translations for one and the same knob in both deck-presets, and change the output as you did in your first screenshot for the second preset.

I know about the MIDI-capture-option and I already used it to get the correct outgoing commands from my Xone. Otherwise I wouldn't have had any idea what I should have typed into the translation-settings

So I will try the things you said and post my results. The best thing would be I do some screenshots of what I've done.


EDIT:
Mhhh, I don't really know where's the difference now to my old try, but my recent settings seem to work
I tried the things you told me to and now I can switch different functions in Torq with the same knob on the Xone just by changing the preset! Wow, that's exactly the result I was looking for.

But I have some more questions:
Is it neccessary to map the unchanged MIDI-signals in one preset or can I just let them pass thru MT? My thought is, that if I switch the preset, MT will automatically detect the input and if the current preset has a translation for the signal, then it will translate it, and if not it will just pass it thru and Torq will notify it as a command for the other deck? Am I right with that?
And my other problem is, that I don't know which output-commands I can take, because the Xone already has nearly all notes on its control elements. And so I'm a little bit scary that I will set a command twice, that is already used by another knob as its original command. Isn't there a possibility to add a "shift-function or anything eles like that for the notes, so that I don't have to bother of double mappings?

I hope you understand what I want to say!? My english-lessons are long ago and I don't even know all the exact english expanations for what I want to achieve.

So, it's me again with an update:

I've answered my last 2 questions by myself.
To get different commands by using the same knobs, I've just translated the incoming notes into others beginning from the highest one, e.g. the incoming F1 is C#9 out, C1 is C9 and so on... With this, I can prevent double notes, because the highest note sent by the Xone is D2.

But I have one more suggestion where I cannot find a solution by myself:
the jogwheel of the Xone is sending CC values from 1 to 30 by turning clockwise and 97 to 127 in the other direction. I want to translate these inputs into keystrokes arrow-up for 97 to 127 and arrow-down for 1 to 30. Is there a way to do this without using rules. I use the MT classic, so I cannot set any rules. And I think it's pretty much work to set a single translation for every single CC value. I read about variables, but I cannot get keen on how to use them for my intention.

Excellent! Good to hear that you have things in order now.

As far as the jog wheels go;

Purchasing a copy of MT Pro would probably be in your best interests, but it is not required to do what you are asking. Rules would make easy work of what you are trying to do, but you could potentially create manual entries for each of the CC values to accomplish this.

Basically what I'm saying is that you could create 60 separate translators that trigger on different values of your jog wheels.

It would end up looking something like this;
AND
Of course substituting the 80/0A with the proper MIDI header the job wheels send.

Not a pretty site, but it would work nonetheless. Getting MT Pro is still recommended though. For people making custom templates you can't go wrong, the possibilities are endless.

As I had a little time to waste yesterday, I did it with all the 60 seperate translations It works pretty fine. But I'm thinking about buying the Pro seriously.

I also created translations for the rotaries, which was pretty much easier. I just set the variable "pp" for the values and changed the controller-ID and this also works. Wow, think I'm becoming a MIDI-checker

But with translating the rotaries, I've noticed the following things:
As I said, I created translations for the CCs by changing their ID. These translations are being activated with the preset for my right deck.
First, I've mapped them for my left deck in Torq. But when I switch the preset (to the other deck), the knobs which I haven't map for the right deck yet, take still effect on the functions of the left deck, although the right-deck-preset is activated and with it the translations for these knobs!? I was wondering a little bit. Does that mean, that I always have to map a function on elements which are being translated, that the translations work?

Floh Baerlin wrote:As I had a little time to waste yesterday, I did it with all the 60 seperate translations It works pretty fine. But I'm thinking about buying the Pro seriously.

I also created translations for the rotaries, which was pretty much easier. I just set the variable "pp" for the values and changed the controller-ID and this also works. Wow, think I'm becoming a MIDI-checker

Definately go with Pro. Once you realize how flexible all the rules let you be you can really start getting creative with your MIDI controllers. I have no less than 100 translators setup in my main template for controlling Ableton Live...

Floh Baerlin wrote:Does that mean, that I always have to map a function on elements which are being translated, that the translations work?

I'm not sure I followed exactly what's going on, but I think you are correct in your statement that you need to map the unique elements of your controller individually.

Well, I think you didn't understand me right - it's perhaps all because of I do pretty hard to explain this problem in english. I'll try it again:

Of course you know that I've created presets for my both decks in Torq. The one for left deck is empty and the other contains the translations.
When I have mapped the Xone for functions in Torq for the left deck and am now doing this also for the right deck (by activating this preset before), the knobs I've already mapped for left side, take still effect on these functions although the knobs are being translated in the preset. This keeps works just as long as I map them with "new" functions. When I did so, everything works fine and I can control both decks with same knobs by changing the presets,

And I just wanted to know if this is correct or not!? I thought that the knobs lose their function as soon as I switch the preset - without having to map other functions.

Is this now better to understand me? Sorry, I really don't know how I can tell you exactly what my intention is.

I think what's happening is that you are still getting the MIDI-Thru of the knobs when your right-side preset is inactivated.

If you have an active translator for a MIDI control, it will take precedence and process according to how you have the outgoing action set up. However, as soon as you disable (or in your case, switch) that preset, the original MIDI data of the knob will be transmitted to Torq unaffected.

If you like you can send me an updated copy of your template and I'll check it out; this might be a better way to get around the language barrier...

As always, more than happy to help. And good to see that MT is working for you so well.

I am in the same situation as you, I Own the 3d, And looking into using the jog dials for something useful in Torq, But i dont know where to start ?, did you get the jog wheel to be useful in torq in anyway ?

kind regards,