will MT work for VSTi control with patch parameter feedback?

hello.

for a long time i have been trying to achieve the ability to control a VSTi with my behringer BCR2000 (plus keyboard) and get patch parameter feedback, however ive never been able to solve actually it has turned me off from making music on a computer abit.

someone on KVR recommended your software (MidiTranslator) and I wanted to ask if in fact this will work for my needs and if yes, then which version do I need?

I'll explain specifically what I need:

I have a Novation remote 49SL patched into my laptop via usb running cubase 5.
a behringer BCR2000 is patched into the novation via midi (BCR out into Novation In) more on that later.

I would like to use the Novation/BCR combo to control VSTi's and VSTfx.
I don't care about controlling cubase itself; only the VSTs.
I want to setup my BCR with permanent labels so that I am always controlling the same vsti synth parameters with the same knobs (like a hardware synth) regardless what vsti I have open.
so for example the same physical knob will control the filter cutoff for NI Massive, u-he Zebra, etc...
so all of the BCR's 32 knobs are controlling synth parameters.
Id like another page or bank (of the BCR) for VSTfx control, so that I can assign all 32 knobs as a super-channel regardless what VST is open at a time. so if i assigned knob 1-4 for compressor parameters and 5-8 for reverb control, and have a chanel strip plugin opened that has both of those fx then all the knobs would work, and if i have only a compressor opened then only knobs 1-4 would work, etc...

whats really important to me as well is to get patch parameter feedback into the BCR.
so if i change a patch on a VSTi (say from one that has a fast attack to one that has a slow attack) that information will be sent to the BCR and the LED on that attack knob will change accordingly .

so will Midi Translator work for me?
if yes, which version do I need to buy?
will I need to open any preset within MidiTranslator when Im opening a new VSTi?
will I be limited to VSTi's that have midi learn capability?
will the setup work in the current configuration? or do I need to have the BCR plugged into the laptop via USB (this is a problem for me at the minute as I am unable to get the behringer drivers to be recognized by win7/64)

Thanx for reading,
here is my original post on KVR in case it is still not clear as to what Im trying to achieve.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 82#5601582

Hi rtx1224

Just to be clear, what you're asking to do is a massive undertaking and I'm not 100% positive anything will do precisely what you want.

CAN MIDI Translator do what you're asking? Yes. Will it require a LOT of presets, programming and use of only certain workflows every time? Yes.

You will need a way for your controller to know which VST you have open, and what the current state of its effects are at the same time. If that information is not output from the VST you are using then you would need to directly tell the controller what you're using. This is doable, but would either need to be done every single time you add a new device, OR would need to be done once and never changed, ever.

You can update the BCR with current states, but you'd need to record those states in MT and save them to variables, which is definitely doable without MIDI learn, but it gets more and more complicated as the project grows. And there is currently a large, but limited, number of variables that can be used to do this.

In essence, yes you can do what you're asking, but it is going to be very difficult and I'm not 100% sure it will do everything you want to do.

Make sense?
Jared

thanx for the reply.

that is too bad that it needs to be such a undertaking.

I thought MT was a sort of midi learn for devices that dont have it built in. I guess I was dreaming that I could simply 'learn' the parameters of each function to knob by clicking and turning.
Unfortunately I just dont have the time to dedicate to this and basically learn low level midi programming... its sort of unbelievable that in this day and age we still use something so old like midi with assigning CC's etc, and doing workarounds with such an outdated protocol. the thiing is is that I rather spend that time in making sounds and music. Oh well... maybe Ill just have to invest in something like arturia.

thanx anyway

Hi RTX

Just to be clear, this only needs to be as complicated as your needs. If you have a standard set up that you use consistently then it is definitely doable. If you have a more fluid one made up of more tools than it becomes more complicated.

I understand the frustration, though. Let us know if you have any other questions
Jared

is it possible that i do this with the bcr hooked up to the novation keyboard wia midi? (so only the novation is plugged into the laptop via usb)

because at this time im unable to get my BCR2000 to be recognized by win7 64bit.
neither the win7 drivers, nor the latest behringer 64bit drivers will work at all.
when i plug the bcr in, windows just says that 'this device is not recognized'
and when i try to instal the behringer win7/64 drivers (1.0.10) the system hangs during installation, then says that it failed.

i doont think it is the unit itself because it used to work on a windows xp laptop and it hasnt been used since, so it was never damaged.
i also tried a couple different usb cables and all the usb ports on the laptop.

nothing thus far has worked at all

Yes it should work with the BCR plugged in through the Novation. As far as drivers go, try running the installer in compatibility mode for Windows XP. I had to do that for the SCS1 drivers, so it might help. The BCR is VERY old and not USB Compliant, so yeah, try that and let me know.

If it doesn't work, though, using it with the 5 pin DIN through the Novation controller should definitely work. Make sure there are no channel or CC overlaps by making the BCR send on a different channel from the Novation

i tried the compatibility mode for Windows Vista (and SP1 and SP2) but none of them worked.
there was no option for windows xp (perhaps because this a 64bit driver?)

also, the behringer website does state that this is the windows7 64 bit driver so i would imagine that it should work without having to change the compatibility.
the wierd thing too is that Im not finding any info about this (people with issues running this device on win7/64) it seems like many people are running it on win7/64 just fine and no install issues.

regarding going through midi, do I need to have 2 midi cables linking the the keyboard and BCR?

I used to have it hooked up like this before (BCR out into Novation In) and it worked more or less... but ofcourse it would never send parameter data back into the BCR when I changed patches on the vsti, so I attached another midi cable (Novation out into BCR in) (so now I have two cables linking the two units) and this cause weird issues like notes repeating after a single key hit, and just did not work.
perhaps the BCR needs to be in a certain mode for this configuration? im not sure

Hi rtx1224

You have a MIDI feedback loop for some reason. That should definitely work, though. So how are you connecting everything when you have the Novation MIDI Out connected to the Behringer MIDI In?

Definitely weird about the Behringer drivers. I'd recommend contacting their customer support. I've had good interaction with them.

Thanks
Jared

yeah, i sent an email to behringer a couple days ago, but still no response

the novation is hooked up to the computer via USB.
the midi out of the navation in plugged into the midi in on BCR.
and BCR midi out is hooked up to novation midi in.
but as Ive mentioned this causes issues (midi loop like you said) basically all it takes is to hit a single key on the keyboard and this causes note-repeat loop until I either unplug the midi cable or turn off the BCR.
btw, the BCR has one midi in and 2 midi outs (one of the outs is a through) and I tried both outputs but the same problem occurs

Out of curiosity, does your audio interface have MIDI Out on it?

yep. one in and one out
(RME babyface)

Try using the MIDI Out from the RME instead of the Novation. Use that MIDI Out port in MIDI Translator and that way you should be able to send only what you want with no risks of MIDI feedback loops.

Make sense?

i can try that.
but should I leave the BCR midi Out connected to the Novation (midi in) keyboard?

Yeah, see if that works while it is connected to the novation.

Hi, so I tried your suggestion and honestly Im not seeing anything.
I obviously have no clue how to use your software properly, but after I opened MT (trial version) I was pressing keys on keyboard and twisting knobs on the BCR but I did not see any activity on MT.



I remember a long time ago when I had windows xp on a nother laptop and had the BCR plugged into it via usb, I was able to get fullduplex parameter feedback with propellerhead Reason. it was beautiful; I changed a patch on one of Reasons synths, and the LEDs on the BCR would adjust accordingly.

Im sort of trying to acheive that with cubase and plugins but Im starting to get the impression that it is a lost cause

Alright rtx, that's fine, let's see if we can figure this out.

Can you take a screen shot of your MIDI settings, so which ports are active in your project as well as which are set as your default ports?

hey, you mean screenshots of midi translator? or cubase settings?

Let's start with MIDI Translator

i attached 2 jpgs.

when I select novation remote as input, and rme as output, I can see the midi in light flashing in MT but not the midi out

Hi rtx

Have you created any translators to send MIDI signals, or used the MIDI Router to pass the information through? MIDI Translator is receiving MIDI (and the IN light is lighting up) but it isn't being told what to do with the information. Go to the MIDI Router and connect the Novation to the RME the Out light should light up and the information should flow. If you want to make any changes to that MIDI data create translators and make changes.

Does that make sense?
Jared

in
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=175512
Sombody says:

I have both of them running under Windows 7 - 64bit (BCF2000 in Mackie Mode hooked up via USB, BCR daisychained via MIDI)

It would be funny if the BCR's USB does not work, while the BCF's does.

On the same page somebody else says:

I'm on win7 64 and had no issues at all with my bcr

I don't think I even installed the behringer drivers, it just worked for me after plugging it in for the first time.

I just now took a look to see what driver it's using and it thinks the device driver is the "Generic USB Audio" Microsoft one.
I've not bothered trying any of the various BCR editors since I moved to win7, so perhaps it will all fall down at that point, but on a basic functional level - no issues.

Yet someone else:

It seems that the problem is to do with the USB 3.0 ports on my PC which don't work with the BCR.

The PC has two USB 3 ports and one USB 2 port. When I plug it into the USB 2 port it works fine.

-Michael